[reesern63]

Originally Posted by music

Some comments on a few points that have been brought up.
Regarding the post about diploma grads being gullible...........and that's why we are anti-union........

I am a diploma grad and certainly do not consider myself gullible. As a matter of fact, this may be the very reason I am not gullible enough to believe that being in a union and going on strike is in any way good for me or my patients. It is good for the union as they still continue to collect your dues. It is good for the organizers as they continue to get paid. It is not good for the nurses as they do not get paid while on strike, can not take PTO or Vacation pay while on strike and may or may not achieve anything significant from it.

I am also not gullible enough to believe that during a strike the patient would have safe care while in the care of those who do not usually work in my area.These people won't know the protocols, where things are, the doctors, etc. This would inevitably slow things down and perhaps cause serious problems. Especially in areas such as ICU/CCU, PICU, NICU, Emergency Department.

On the subject of "scabs" A scab is something that forms at the site of a wound to promote healing. I would not hesitate to cross the picket line for my patients, my professional viewpoint on where I need to be and my conscience. However, I respect the right of any other nurse to follow his or her own conscience. I would not look down on them or treat them in a disrespectful manner. You can be sure that the union would encourage these same nurses to disrespect me for my stand, treat me in a negative manner, yell obscenities as I walk in etc.

I am not gullible enough to have that effect my decision for one minute. I know where I want to be. However, I am more than happy to stand up in a professional manner for any problems I see that need to be approached and would stand with my fellow nurses in approaching them in the right way.


A lot of posts state that Unions will stand up for you and get you the pay and respect you deserve......I've got news for you. Unions don't always stand up for the nurses they represent.....at least not in public. You may have heard of the problems facing King-Harbor Medical Center in Los Angeles. For over one year or more, the LA TIMES has been full of stories about poor nursing care, nursing errors, patient deaths attributed to poor nursing care. Bad morale, poor performance, lack of competency reviews, and on and on and on. Most recently, there was a lot of press nationwide regarding this hospital and the poor nursing care. The press has had a field day with all of this. NOT ONE TIME in the past year or more has the UNION that represents these nurses at this hospital come out with any statements in support of the nurses. NOT ONE TIME have I heard anything about the union standing up to the hospital and fighting for better working conditions, better training, improved pay and staffing. This has been such a public topic, the union would have served these nurses well to do something to stand up for them. Surely, not every nurse at this hospital is a bad nurse. This is not right. So much for unions fighting for nurses and helping them in the workplace. So much for the union propaganda of having a union promotes safer patient care and better outcomes. BUT I can almost guarantee you that the union is still taking out their dues from the nurses paychecks as this hospital steadily declines and is at this moment in danger of losing their government funding and closing.

The bottom line is this. I think that each hospital is unique in the specific problems they face. It is up to the nurses to join together in a professional manner to define these problems, use all avenues to seek solutions and speak up clearly and effectively to participate in solving the problems.

IF they decide that they want to be represented by a union, they need to understand that the union will not be able to solve all problems. They will take their dues, negotiate a contract and in most cases, the rest is still up to the nurses themselves.

Unions are not the one single answer. They are an answer that some choose to take and I understand that. Others choose not to take the union answer. They choose to speak for themselves. The bottom line is this.....WE are the answer and we all have a different viewpoint on how to get to the end result. I suggest that we decide to support each other no matter which solution we choose. To point fingers, call names, disregard other's feelings in useless, counterproductive and unprofessional.

This diploma grad has been in nursing over 30 years. I am here to tell you that I strongly believe in the profession of nursing and I firmly believe in the fact that it will take ALL of us, pro-union and anti-union, coming together as ONE to solve the problems before us TOGETHER.

Your level of education is irrelevant. I am also a diploma grad, and I happen to strongly disagree with your view of crossing a line. When you do that, you undercut what those nurses are striking for and you give your support to the management who have not been willing to negotiate in good faith with the nurses.

Prettify what a "scab" is all you wish, crossing picket lines hurts the nurses who are out there fighting for better conditions for patients and nurses.

[caroladybelle]

Originally Posted by mommy2boys

Our local hospitals nurses voted to strike because they are not getting what they want with their contract (a 11% raise and no more floating are the major reasons). I'm not a nurse so I don't understand their reasoning to strike to "protect their patients". Could someone please explain to me why striking will help protect their patients. I have always felt that there are some professions that shouldn't be able to strike (walk off the job), police, fire and nurses and doctors. My husband is a correctional officer and they had to solve their contract (which they did) without striking so I know it can and does get done.

There are significant differences between police/fire rescue and MD/nurses.

Police/fire rescue are services provided by government and funded by taxes. Though some taxes go to community facilities, one is not inheritently entitled to medical/nursing care. Though in our Country today with heavily subsidized care, that line gets blurred.

We are "entitled" to the services of police/fire rescue....we are not "entitled" to medical care, though it is provided for many of us, by government assistance.

I personally do not believe in unions nor organized strikes but I support the rights of others to do what they see as right. I have never seen a strike on the East Coast, where I work that was not well merited by the facility that the strike was instituted against, due to mismanagement and abuse of HCWers. I will not work a strike.

But we all "strike" in our own way....even if it is not called a "strike", even police. There is the infamous "blue flu" that strikes. And the police force of N'Orleans has been seriously damaged by massive resignations...they strike by quitting in mass. And health care workers have done that for ages. Get in a traumatic accident w/neuro damage in WPB area of Florida during January/February or in parts of PA. Due to the extremely high price of malpractice insurance, the liability laws, high liability and extremely poor reimbursement, few trauma neuros choose to work those areas. I have had neuro injury patients in WPB (a wealthy community) have to be transferred 200 miles or more, with hours/days delay, because there were no beds at Jackson in Miami, nor qualified MDs to treat the patient. Some areas have few OBs - again liability, and inadequate reimbursement have driven them away.

Does that sort of "strike" benefit the public more than the relatively temporary one?

How many times do we see nurses so burnt out that they quit the profession or have to take a "sick day" or two? Or actually develop serious health issues that impair their ability to nurse? This is harmful to the public also.

If a facility is chronically understaffing, because they wish to pinch pennies, or will not pay adequate wages to get quality staff, this harms the patients in our care. If we are not getting our earned breaks, we cannot work to give optimal care to our patients. This cheats our patients of the care that they deserve. When we are curt, it gives a bad impression, that we are selfish, rather than them knowing we are overworked. When we cannot get them a cola after hours, because management refuses to supply anything but 3 meals, we take the heat. If the food is bad, the MD late on rounds, the phone broken, we are the ones that take the heat.

Strikes are not good things, but they are often the last resort to protect the patient...to correct conditions so that the patient can get the care that they deserve.

[caroladybelle]

Originally Posted by lindarn

AB employees were able to negotiate the pay they are now receiving, because, as most male dominated fields, they are heavly unionized. Nurses bought the big lie many years ago, that it was "unprofesssional" to unionize. And where did this philosophy come from? The hospitals, when nurses were almost exclusively educated in hospital diploma programs. It never cease to amaze me how gullible nurses were then, and now.

It is sad that all you seem to see are "gullible" nurses. I pride myself in fostering and mentoring strong, reliable, skilled nurses around me, who regardless of degree in nursing manage to cooperate and stand up for change without unions.

[Nursegrrl8]

I am glad we don't have a union where I work. They treat us well. I think I would have ethical difficulties striking unless the mistreatment was glaringly obvious.

[teeituptom]

Originally Posted by reesern63

Your level of education is irrelevant. I am also a diploma grad, and I happen to strongly disagree with your view of crossing a line. When you do that, you undercut what those nurses are striking for and you give your support to the management who have not been willing to negotiate in good faith with the nurses.

Prettify what a "scab" is all you wish, crossing picket lines hurts the nurses who are out there fighting for better conditions for patients and nurses.

A Scab is what protects and helps heal a wound.

Crossing those picket lines is essential

I love crossing picket lines

I also love strike pay very much, I can make an excellent living this way.

[AliRae]

Originally Posted by teeituptom

A Scab is what protects and helps heal a wound.

Crossing those picket lines is essential

I love crossing picket lines

I also love strike pay very much, I can make an excellent living this way.

Have you thought about the fact that, if there were no scabs available, there would be no way hospitals could afford to let their nurses strike? Think if what that would mean for nursing as a whole.

[teeituptom]

Originally Posted by AliRae

Have you thought about the fact that, if there were no scabs available, there would be no way hospitals could afford to let their nurses strike? Think if what that would mean for nursing as a whole.

And if there were no scabs, like me, with the exorbitant money and other costs, I charge. You need scabs to help heal the wounds.

and I do mean exorbitant charges

[fergus51]

I've been offered strike work before. The pay really wasn't that good. You can make almost the same amount on a regular travel assignment out here.

[caroladybelle]

Originally Posted by AliRae

Have you thought about the fact that, if there were no scabs available, there would be no way hospitals could afford to let their nurses strike? Think if what that would mean for nursing as a whole.

First, let me say that I am not a fan of strikebreakers.

But to play the devil's advocate, if the hospital has to bring in scabs. ......

According to some prounion posters, the strikebreakers' work is never up to par.....this hurts the facility's rep and puts them at increased risk of lawsuits and malpractice. They also will get complaints (can you imagine the Press Gainey scores) from patients and MDs, and MDs start sending patients elsewhere. This will help the strikers. Plus after management has to work the floors, if indeed, the conditions are that bad to necessitate striking, it will help them (at least temporarily) see the light.

If conditions are not that bad, or the strikebreakers are better employees, the strikers may have big problems. As a traveler, I have worked assignments where I did not get floated, while a staffer did because the staffer was a total slacker....despite the predominant theory that travelers are not that dedicated, and are never as good as staff.

The other option, is that the facility can shutdown, a no win for both parties.

[Freedom42]

Originally Posted by caroladybelle

First, let me say that I am not a fan of strikebreakers.

But to play the devil's advocate, if the hospital has to bring in scabs. ......

According to some prounion posters, the strikebreakers' work is never up to par.....this hurts the facility's rep and puts them at increased risk of lawsuits and malpractice. They also will get complaints (can you imagine the Press Gainey scores) from patients and MDs, and MDs start sending patients elsewhere. This will help the strikers. Plus after management has to work the floors, if indeed, the conditions are that bad to necessitate striking, it will help them (at least temporarily) see the light.

If conditions are not that bad, or the strikebreakers are better employees, the strikers may have big problems. As a traveler, I have worked assignments where I did not get floated, while a staffer did because the staffer was a total slacker....despite the predominant theory that travelers are not that dedicated, and are never as good as staff.

The other option, is that the facility can shutdown, a no win for both parties.

I've read a lot on this board about potential strikes, and the concept of strikes in general, but very few actual strikes. I haven't had a lot of luck finding statistics. Maybe someone reading this can help me.

How many times do nurses go on strike in an average year?
How many of those strikes last, say, more than a week?
And how often, as the above poster suggests, does a hospital shut down as a result of a nurses' strike?