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  #21  
Old Mar 29, 2007, 04:14 PM
NurseyPoo's Avatar
Night Diva
Join Date: Sep 2006
Re: Nurses' Unions

I also think that it depends on the Union...I have heard horror stories and I have heard wonderful stories. The nurses at the hospital I work for have tried in the past and failed...you need 75% of the nurses for the union to come in...Most nurses are too afraid. If it fails the backlash is really-really bad. I would love to see the RIGHT union come in.

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  #22  
Old Mar 29, 2007, 04:16 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Re: Nurses' Unions

Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post
The principle is called academic freedom which is a form of protected speech under the First Amendment. It is legitimate speech to reflect on the impact of labor relations history on working conditions and patient care.
"Academic freedom" still has it's limits, which include avoiding controversial topics that are unrelated to the subject at hand.

I seriously doubt that unionization was part of the course content, and I seriously doubt there would be similar tolerance for an anti-union presentation.

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  #23  
Old Mar 29, 2007, 04:17 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Re: Nurses' Unions

Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post
Its called a functional social contract. Minnesota is one of the healthiest states in the country overall.

http://covertheuninsured.org/states/?StateID=MN

Quick Facts About Minnesota's Uninsured

In Minnesota, out of a total population of 5,132,799 people, 8.4% do not have health insurance coverage. 6.5% of Minnesota's children are uninsured.

http://www.unitedhealthfoundation.or...AllStates.html
Minnesota is first this year, a position it has held for nine of the 15 years since the 1990 Edition. It was tied for first with New Hampshire in 2003.
My point being...if it's so great, why the need to unionize?

Unions are not designed with the interests of the patients in mind.

Seems to me that the more 'universal' the system, the worse the working conditions.

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  #24  
Old Mar 29, 2007, 04:24 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Re: Nurses' Unions

Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post
Quick Facts About Georgia's Uninsured

In Georgia, out of a total population of 9,072,576 people, 18.9% do not have health insurance coverage. 12.7% of Georgia's children are uninsured.

and

http://www.unitedhealthfoundation.or...AllStates.html
Georgia is 45th this year, its lowest ranking in the 15 years of this report; it was 41st in 2003. Its strengths include a low number of limited activity days per month at 2.0 days in the previous 30 days, a low rate of cancer deaths at 203.0 deaths per 100,000 population and high access to adequate prenatal care at 76.7 percent of pregnant women receiving adequate prenatal care. Challenges include a very low high school graduation rate with 53.6 percent of incoming ninth graders who graduate within four years, a high incidence of infectious disease at 41.3 cases per 100,000 population and low support for public health with just 0.8 percent of the state health budget allocated to public health. Health disparities within the state's prenatal care program are low compared to other states, but more disparity is illustrated by the differences in premature death rates. Black non-Hispanic individuals experience 12,773 years of potential life lost before age 75 per 100,000 population compared to 4,360 years lost for the Hispanic population. Georgia is 45th for the combined measures of risk factors and 41st for the combined measures of outcomes, indicating the state is unlikely to change significantly in ranking in the near future.

I think the relative performance of a liberal state versus Georgia speaks for itself on health outcome measures.

The Children's Health System of Atlanta is the number one ranked children's hospital to work for by Fortune. Top 10 in US News mag, and Child mag.

HS graduation rates, and the rate at which minorities are killing each other in southern Fulton County cannot be placed on the shoulder of the health-care establisment. If so, then I'd like to hear the reaction of the Minnesota Dept. of Education and the Minn. Attorney Gen.when they are told that their graduation rates and crime is a reflection of their unionized health care system.

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  #25  
Old Mar 29, 2007, 04:46 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Re: Nurses' Unions

Originally Posted by Shamira Aizza View Post
Unions are not designed with the interests of the patients in mind.
The only reason California has a ratio law was because of unions. And it benefits all nurses in California, 80 percent of whom don't belong to a union.

It also benefits patients because nurses have more time to spend on care.


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  #26  
Old Mar 29, 2007, 07:12 PM
HM2Viking's Avatar
HM2Viking (Male)
TARDIS
Join Date: Apr 2006
Re: Nurses' Unions

MNA negotiated a nurse/patient ratio provision that in essence prevents unsafe staffing levels.

In MN the highest quality hospitals are unionized.

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  #27  
Old Mar 29, 2007, 07:34 PM
HM2Viking's Avatar
HM2Viking (Male)
TARDIS
Join Date: Apr 2006
Re: Nurses' Unions

Originally Posted by Shamira Aizza View Post
The Children's Health System of Atlanta is the number one ranked children's hospital to work for by Fortune. Top 10 in US News mag, and Child mag.

HS graduation rates, and the rate at which minorities are killing each other in southern Fulton County cannot be placed on the shoulder of the health-care establisment. If so, then I'd like to hear the reaction of the Minnesota Dept. of Education and the Minn. Attorney Gen.when they are told that their graduation rates and crime is a reflection of their unionized health care system.
It may well be a great hospital for staff to work at. But the real issue is access for patients the question becomes are you insured or can you pay out of pocket to use it........

I have a feeling that Minneapolis Children's hospital is equal or superior in quality of care and it is a UNION hospital


Last edited by HM2Viking : Mar 29, 2007 at 07:38 PM.
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  #28  
Old Mar 30, 2007, 04:41 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Re: Nurses' Unions

Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post
It may well be a great hospital for staff to work at. But the real issue is access for patients the question becomes are you insured or can you pay out of pocket to use it........

I have a feeling that Minneapolis Children's hospital is equal or superior in quality of care and it is a UNION hospital
You like to post research, polls, and surveys, and there is nothing that suggests that MCH is even in the same league.

Opinions of convenience, perhaps?

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  #29  
Old Mar 30, 2007, 11:28 PM
HM2Viking's Avatar
HM2Viking (Male)
TARDIS
Join Date: Apr 2006
Re: Nurses' Unions

Most if not all of these hospitals are unionized.

http://www.healthgrades.com/consumer/index.cfm?fuseaction=mod&modtype=hospitals&modact= hospitals_search_results&prodtype=hosprat&state=MN &city=&maparea=&proc=&tabset=dhp&hgid=&useragree=y es

Hospital Name/Location
Abbott - Northwestern Hospital Inc, Minneapolis


Mercy Hospital, Coon Rapids








Performance reports from Children’s Hospital MPLS.
http://xpedio02.childrensmn.org/stellent/groups/public/@web/@healthprof/documents/policyreferenceprocedure/085067.pdf

A telling part of this report is that they are also self critical about areas needing improvement. There is also a value that may not be reflected within the national quality data about Children’s hospital. Children’s is located within a cluster of excellent hospitals dedicated to providing high quality treatment to pediatric patients. Nationally recognized centers of pediatric excellence that are nearby include the following:

http://www.child.com/child/story.jhtml;jsessionid=BDJGD3R0PJOL5QFIBQPR5VQ?sto ryid=/templatedata/child/story/data/1165872619302.xml&categoryid=/templatedata/child/category/data/1131546614395.xml&page=12

38. Mayo Eugenio Litta Children's Hospital at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN (Part of the Mayo System)
20. Children's Hospital of Iowa in Iowa City
9. Children's Hospital of Wisconsin, Milwaukee
40. Children's Hospital in Omaha
7. St. Louis Children's Hospital
18. Children's Memorial Hospital in Chicago

While Minneapolis Children’s Hospital was not rated in theUS News top 10 the benefits of being located within the gestalt of a group of high performers would translate into a consistently high standard of care. The central issues of affordability and commitment to access also influence and promote a health care culture dedicated to patient care.

Versus: http://www.healthgrades.com/consumer...oc=&tabset=dhp

Georgia recipients for the year 2007 Hospital Name/Location Memorial Health University Medical Cen,Inc, Savannah


Northeast Georgia Medical Center, Gainesville

including:
Northeast Georgia Medical Center – Lanier Park Campus, Gainesville

Piedmont Hospital, Atlanta


Saint Joseph’s Hospital Of Atlanta, Atlanta


Furthermore, the US news list did have a greater number of Hospitals from the "blue" states which may indicate that Atlanta Children's was an exception rather than the norm for quality health care. The other point remains that United Health's rankings were centered around the effectiveness of state health promotion efforts which are a key part of reducing the need for more intensive health care services. Isn't our profession supposed to be about creating social environments that promote and maintain health rather than illness?


Last edited by HM2Viking : Apr 02, 2007 at 10:13 AM.
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  #30  
Old Apr 02, 2007, 01:20 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Lightbulb Re: Nurses' Unions

Originally Posted by Shamira Aizza View Post
In the US, nursing unions serve two purposes; as a palliative measure to give the appearance of improving a festering underlying occupational disfunction within a facility, and in some places as a place for meek employees to "sign up" for the team-based approach of extorting benefits from an employer when the employee is too afraid or uninformed to negotiate their own.

I refuse to work at a union shop because it indicates systemic problems that have not been repaired, but have rather been "spackled over" by a union, and because a union will deny me the right and privilege to negotiate my own compensation based on my own merits and ambition.
(In case you missed it, this is a cross post from the Walter Reed thread...)

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about unions. As opposed to the "individual mandate/mantra--"every woman (or man) for themselves", I believe in the collective, progressive point of view, " we're all in this together."

Before unions, people could be worked 10 or more hours a day, 6 days a week, in whatever kind of miserable conditions employers felt like offering. You have unions to thank for 40 hour workweeks, two days off per week, and living wages, retirement and insurance benefits. The ability, the right to bargain collectively, to meet your employer on equal terms, to enforce safe working conditions, pay and benefits over and above the minimum wage that the laws provide, to be respected as an equal, to be protected against arbitrary discrimination, all of these things are what unions are about.

Now, how about those hospital administrators vs. the direct care RNs who are really held accountable, ultimately, for what happens to the patient? (If you don't like it leave?) Mandatory overtime?, Merit pay or favoritism?, Staffing flexibility or admitting patients without adequate staffing and calling it "care", such as putting patients in the hallways or on monitors that no one is monitoring, and then billing for the "service"? Fraud or legalized neglect? Bottom line vs. genuine patient-focused care and nursing practice/patient advocacy protection? The bosses will tell you, "do the best you can" and then play "the blame game" when patients suffer complications and even death. Let's talk about fairness and justice!

Unionized direct care Registered Nurses in California, members of The California Nurses Association, called the question, collectively fought for and passed the first-in-the-nation minimum nurse to patient ratios. The law also requires hospitals to "staff up" (provide additional staffing of RNs, LVNs, NAs, Ward Clerks), based on acuity and scope of practice to meet the needs of the patient, as determined by the independent clinical judgement of the direct care registered nurses responsible for the patients. The ratio law protects patients from corporate greed/bottom line staffing schemes and improves working conditions to stop the hemorrhage of nurses from the profession.

The only reason the government does any of these things is because of union-led and supported legislation. Most of these laws – or at least their enforcement – are being undermined by "dirty money" (corporate cash exchanged for political gain)...political appointees and elected officials who look the other way as our individual rights and freedoms...free speech, freedom of association, and freedom to control our practice are encumbered or eroded to the point that they endanger patients by stifling our ability to advocate without fear of retaliation.

The reason they (Bush-its, Schwarzen-cronies, and Co.) are able to even attempt this is that unions are far weaker now than when these laws were passed – and the public is far less educated about the benefits of unions; and, the fact that most legal workplace protections wouldn’t be there without unions. And, in fact, if unions disappear, so will all of those legal protections, and many others that we just take for granted these days.

Responsibility is one thing, and it’s a good thing. No one would argue with that. But unions aren’t just about responsibility, they’re also about power – power in the good sense. The individual is no match for even a small company, much less a large corporation. Joining together in unions is the only way that individual workers can have a voice to defend pay, working conditions and benefits, whether legal or bargained. And unions, public interest groups, and government, (if the laws are enforced), are the only means to make sure that management lives up to its corporate and social responsibility not to sicken, injure, kill and exploit workers (or patients) and the community.

And when California's Gov. Schwarzenegger abused his discretionary power to suspend our ratios, the nurses and the community fought back, from a position of collective strength, united in a common cause for safe standards; we prevailed in court and the law won, the nurses won and our patients won! Just try that as an individual...and don't kid yourself.

It's always going to be a fight and someday, you're going to have to lock arms together in a righteous fight in the exclusive interest of, and for the safety of patients, be they civilians, or Veterans.

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