[Organize1199]

NRSKarenRN,

I have written Chico David here, to talk about the point you raised about the conversation being quite negative in other threads.

http://allnurses.com/forums/f323/i-d...ml#post2741030

I think we all appreciate your mediation on that point, especially in the other threads. In this thread I don't see so much in the way of personal attacks, just a serious debate.

That said, for my part, I have talked about who is moving the CNA's message in Ohio. I think that is an honest and fair component of this discussion.

It's important that CNA's volunteers are unrelated to the organizing drive, and that CNA itself did not have anything to do with the organizing drive. I think the contrast between that and the many voices of CHP workers - I just think it's at the heart of what happened here.

On a separate note, I think your analysis of the three schools of thought misses the mark. Parts of it are true and reflect early debate between the AFL and the CIO. The AFL only believed in organizing skilled ("craft") workers. The CIO believed in organizing everyone (united across whole industries). The first model is called "craft unionism" and the second is called "industrial unionism."

I do agree that CNA is an RN craft union, whereas SEIU is an industrial union. These are not derogatory terms, although they may occasionally come out that way, as many of us feel strongly one way or the other.

I (very) respectfully disagree with two elements of your further analysis. In particular I would agree that CNA is aggressive in some senses (it seems to go on strike an awful lot). But it's aggression has, to a very large extent, been targeted at other unions - through raids of SEIU at Tenet and CHW, raids at ANA and UAN unions - and even union-busting drives - that's aggressive, but not really organizing in the union sense.

The other description you use that I think is unintentionally misleading is the first part of your description of SEIU, "partners with management".

We fight management tooth and nail; we bargain hard; we strike when we have to; we run long-term and highly contentious campaigns to win workers the space to organize without being put through the union-busting meat grinder. When management agrees to a fair organizing process, we fight as hard as any union in the country for the best contract we can get & we strike if necessary to get it.

Anytime worker's interests do not align with the boss, we fight the boss.

But human beings in this world have a lot of common interests too. SEIU is a powerful political force, and we seek to use that force to benefit our membership. Most of the time we use that might to defend workers against management aggression. At other times, we use that might to bring in more money for the hospitals our members work at, because we have obtained an agreement that the new money will be used for better staffing, pay and benefits.

Bringing in new money is beneficial to management and workers alike. Our ability to do it changes bargaining, and often allows our members to get more for patient care and their families, while having a less divisive work atmosphere.

Anyway, I know you mean well and I appreciate so much of what you have said. I'm just a bit sensitive about the phrase "partners with management" when it has been used here so often to mean that we are some kind of a yellow dog union. We are nothing of the sort.

Again, I appreciate much of what you have said and will absolutely seek to be a positive voice in this venue.

IN SOLIDARITY

[justice4peace]

Dear Organize 1199,

I can not agree to continue this debate by the ground rules which you have proposed until several inflammatory statements you have recently made are cleared up. Your vitriolic diatribe has only solidified the very reason that I would not have a non-RN union represent me. Your comments on this cite speak volumes to your lack of knowledge about what the practice of nursing really is. I encourage every reader on this cite to pull up all of your comments and judge for themselves who has been the one who has resorted to threatening, abusive language and personal attacks on others who have tried to add anything to this debate. I am including one of your recent posts so I can point out your misstatements one by one.

This reminds me of the global warming "debate". The oil companies go out and find the last two "scientists" on earth who will argue it isn't happening. Then they call it "the other side of the story". Anyone can find two "scientists" with actual scientific degrees, willing to say anything...

Similarly, CNA found two RNs who are willing to say anything. Neither works at a hospital, much less a CHP hospital. One (the author of the letter referenced by "justice4peace") is a politician who recently placed 4th in a field of 5, in the (very small) Brooksville City Council race - despite being the incumbent. The other is "RN Power Ohio", an RN who works at a law firm in Cleveland, suing doctors.

CNA did not “find” the RN who wrote the OP-ED in the Springfield newspaper; she sought them out.She has watched with great interest in their involvement in passing Nurse-to-Patient Ratios in California and was hopeful that the same type of legislation could be enacted in Ohio. The first time she heard them speak was when they came to an Ohio Board of Nursing meeting in 2006 to ask that stronger language be drafted into Ohio’s Nurse Practice Act that insured that the RN’s duty was to be the patient’s advocate and to add whistle-blower protection so the RN would not face retaliation if that RN spoke out on the patient’s behalf.

The RN who wrote the letter IS a nurse who has worked at an inner-city Dayton hospital at the bedside for nearly 20 years without ever leaving that role. She has been an outspoken advocate for patients and co-workers at every turn. To claim that she doesn’t “work at a hospital” is an out and out lie.

You are correct that she lost a bid for re-election last November in Brookville. There were five people running for three open seats. If you understood small town politics (“very small”, you wrote, which you implied that her community is apparently insignificant) you would know that the votes were split and she, not being a “local”, lost her bid for re-election. Did she leave her role as a community activist? No, she did not; she continues to fight for the health, safety and welfare of her wonderful community and will continue to do so.

In another post you referred to her as “eccentric”; have you ever met her? You also stated that she testified with RN Power Ohio at a hearing at the Statehouse recently. She was there to support the NNOC in their fight for safe Nurse-to Patient Ratios, but she did not testify. That is public record, of course, so you are welcome to research that fact. She will continue to work towards introducing NNOC’s legislation that will insure safety for both the patient and her nurse colleagues throughout the state including testifying at future hearings if necessary. Your personal and demeaning attacks on this nurse’s character were not only unnecessary and irrelevant to your post but they were also untrue. Unlike you, her name and picture are attached to the OP-ED that she wrote. You clearly “Googled” her so you know where she lives and even have access to her phone number; so you can write or call her with an apology if you would like to do so.

Neither of these curious characters had a thing to do with the CHP organizing drive, until at least one of them came to Springfield to lend a hand in CNA's anti-union picketing.

That's not "the other side of the issue". There is no other side of the issue. No more so than two Exxon "scientists" denying global warming.

The other side of this issue is that RN’s do have a choice when it comes to who represents them. Your unprofessional behavior has again solidified the very reason that RN’s should represent RN’s. You do not even understand what THEIR role entails. Your post has pointed out that you do not even understand that the dual-role that RN’s contribute to society is also very unique.

We can be politicians, lawyers, legal nurse consultants, union organizers, school board members, community activists and a host of other roles which work in concert to assure that the health, safety and welfare of our communities remain in the forefront of everything we do. We can do all of these things and still remain at the patient’s bedside and be their number one advocate.

Sallie Baker, Lorie Compton, Sue Allen and Michaela Silver - these are a few of the many voices we have heard from. These are front-line care givers at CHP hospitals who have been fighting for a union for the last three years. For quality patient care. For the security of their families. For the families of their coworkers, nurses and non-RNs alike.

These hospital caregivers, have risked their livelihoods time and again to stand on ONE side - in SOLIDARITY with their coworkers. There is no other side.

I too am a hospital caregiver. I have also risked my livelihood when it comes to speaking out and being an advocate for my patients and my co-workers alike. If you are wondering how I know so much about the RN who wrote the OP-ED in the Springfield newspaper, it is because I look at her every day in the mirror.

[NRSKarenRN]

Closed for timeout review.