[elkpark]

Originally Posted by DutchgirlRN

Whoa.....

it's too easy to say "I give up"

It's also "too easy" to stay in a relationship in which you're v. unhappy and frustrated, your partner clearly has no regard for your feelings, and just keep venting for another 20 years about unhappy you are without taking any real action.

I didn't say he should leave; only that Wifey has made her position clear and the ball is in his court. It is a simple reality that he can't control or change her behavior, only his own. The situation isn't likely to change, so is that situation acceptable to him, or not?

I'm wondering about the different reaction (granted, not too many responses yet ) to this OP than to similar posts in which a woman complains about how awful her man treats her -- so many woman here line up to say "You don't have to put up with that kind of treatment, hon! Get out of there and find someone who will treat you with the love and respect you deserve!" "Get a lawyer today!!" Is this situation somehow different because it's a man complaining about a woman? Or is it because Wifey's a smoker and smokers here are going to be more sympathetic to her than they would be to lots of other emotionally-abusive-relationship situations described on this board?

To the OP -- you know, of course, that smoking is an addiction; Al-Anon would provide you with support and information about living/dealing with an addict while minimizing the damage to your own life & psyche. If you're not already involved, I strongly reccomend you seek out the local meetings and start attending. They help an awful lot of people ...

Hugs and best wishes --

[Spidey's mom]

I think you both need therapy before you decide to leave her.

Since you don't have children, that huge concern isn't there.

But something has to change - the power struggle goes beyond the cigarettes.

Good luck.

steph

[NancyNurse08]

Sounds like smoking was not an issue for you when you decided to marry her. It sounds like you have changed, growing to value your personal health more, while she has not changed and appears to have no interest in doing so.

In my mind, when two people care for one another and value their relationship, they compromise. Would you be willing to overlook her smoking if she agrees to stop throwing her butts everywhere? Would she be willing to work on her weight if you would be willing to do XYZ? What do you do that drives her nuts? Would you be willing to work on that if she is willing to work on herself?

If, however, you absolutely cannot overlook the smoking, and she absolutely refuses to give it up, then you two are at an impasse. Perhaps it is time to admit that your marriage was a mistake, that the two of you are incompatible and mutually satisfying compromise is not likely to occur.

I'm with the others who suggest at least giving marriage counseling a shot before making any big decisions.

[LiverpoolJane]

Reading this I am torn between two trains of thought.
First it may be your wife has a very low opinion of herself - the wt gain - not being able to conceive - the fact that it would appear she doesn't seem to care about the fact she smells of stale smoke etc. Would you consider spending some quality time with your wife to let her know you care about her - a surprize night away / day out or some vouchers for a spa pamper day? If she sees you are making an effort towards her she may realise that you have her interests at heart and may give her the opportunity to reflect on her own thoughts toward herself / your marriage?

My second thought is that your wife wants to split - either consciously or subconsciously - but is going down the route of pushing you to the limit so you're the one that walks away.

Most people who have been through divorce regret it and wish they had tried harder to save the marriage - it may end in a split but at least you should try everything in your power to try and prevent it so as you have no regrets later.

I hope you can come to terms with whatever happens.

Jane

[elkpark]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolJane

Most people who have been through divorce regret it and wish they had tried harder to save the marriage -

I'm not trying to be argumentative or critical, but do you have any sources or statistics to back up that statement, or is it your own opinion/impression? I'm always kinda suspicious of those kind of blanket statements ... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way; I'm sure there are also lots of people who, in retrospect, wish they had "bit the bullet" and sought a divorce earlier, and not wasted the additional years in a relationship with no hope or future (I've known some of those folks personally), and I'm sure there are lots of divorced people who feel lots of other ways about their divorce(s).

I certainly agree with you that it's important to make sure that you've tried everything you can to make the relationship work before walking away.

[oramar]

My entire childhood was spent with a cloud of smoke around my head and I hated it. At an early age I decided I would never marry a smoker and I didn't. It was one of the smarter things I did when I was young. I am in my 60th year and I have a strong healthy spouse. Most my non smoking friends married to smokers are already widows and widowers or dealing with a spouse in very poor health.(please don't anyone tell me there are no guarantees, I am old and I know that, I am talking about the averages here) So glad it wasn't me, hubby and I are having such fun. What I am saying is that you deserve to have a healthy spouse also. If you have children they deserve not to be exposed to smoke and have a healthy mother.

[DutchgirlRN]

Originally Posted by elkpark

I'm not trying to be argumentative or critical, but do you have any sources or statistics to back up that statement, or is it your own opinion/impression? I'm always kinda suspicious of those kind of blanket statements ... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way; I'm sure there are also lots of people who, in retrospect, wish they had "bit the bullet" and sought a divorce earlier, and not wasted the additional years in a relationship with no hope or future (I've known some of those folks personally), and I'm sure there are lots of divorced people who feel lots of other ways about their divorce(s).

I certainly agree with you that it's important to make sure that you've tried everything you can to make the relationship work before walking away.

Elmpark are you married? How long? Have you ever been married?

I've been married for 32 years and it hasn't all been wine & roses but it has been worth the struggle, without a doubt and we have been to marriage counseling in the past x 2

[LiverpoolJane]

I am actually divorced and quite frankly it was the best thing that could have happened as far as I am concerned - I don't even like admitting I ever was married! However when we split up I did seek advice - literature and friends who had gone through divorce and I did find a lot of info - polls etc that would suggest that a lot of people feel they may have been too hasty in filing for divorce. When I did file for my divorce I felt it was absolutely the right thing to do - but it was still a difficult time and wouldn't want to repeat it - and 11 years later I am still very happily single.
I agree with you that sometimes time is wasted staying together making each other miserable but from what this member was saying I don't think he has reached the point of no return and was trying to offer some practical advice. It may well be that it doesn't work and him and his wife part, it does seem to me that either the wife could be feeling in a rut she can't help herself out of - or possibly she wouldn't be eart broken if he left? I don't know - but for his peace of mind I think he should aim to help first rather than just walk away now.

Originally Posted by elkpark

I'm not trying to be argumentative or critical, but do you have any sources or statistics to back up that statement, or is it your own opinion/impression? I'm always kinda suspicious of those kind of blanket statements ... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way; I'm sure there are also lots of people who, in retrospect, wish they had "bit the bullet" and sought a divorce earlier, and not wasted the additional years in a relationship with no hope or future (I've known some of those folks personally), and I'm sure there are lots of divorced people who feel lots of other ways about their divorce(s).

I certainly agree with you that it's important to make sure that you've tried everything you can to make the relationship work before walking away.

[NancyNurse08]

Originally Posted by elkpark

I'm not trying to be argumentative or critical, but do you have any sources or statistics to back up that statement, or is it your own opinion/impression? I'm always kinda suspicious of those kind of blanket statements ... I'm sure a lot of people feel that way; I'm sure there are also lots of people who, in retrospect, wish they had "bit the bullet" and sought a divorce earlier, and not wasted the additional years in a relationship with no hope or future (I've known some of those folks personally), and I'm sure there are lots of divorced people who feel lots of other ways about their divorce(s).

I would be one of those. Of course I didn't WANT divorce, after all, I got married planning on spending the rest of my life with this person. I worked my tail off to make the marriage work. I'm not *happy* that my marriage ended in divorce, but I do think it really was for the best. I am so much happier in my life now that I do not have that daily stress of trying to make an unworkable situation work. It gets to be like banging your head against a brick wall.

[elkpark]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolJane

I am actually divorced and quite frankly it was the best thing that could have happened as far as I am concerned - I don't even like admitting I ever was married! However when we split up I did seek advice - literature and friends who had gone through divorce and I did find a lot of info - polls etc that would suggest that a lot of people feel they may have been too hasty in filing for divorce. When I did file for my divorce I felt it was absolutely the right thing to do - but it was still a difficult time and wouldn't want to repeat it - and 11 years later I am still very happily single.
I agree with you that sometimes time is wasted staying together making each other miserable but from what this member was saying I don't think he has reached the point of no return and was trying to offer some practical advice. It may well be that it doesn't work and him and his wife part, it does seem to me that either the wife could be feeling in a rut she can't help herself out of - or possibly she wouldn't be eart broken if he left? I don't know - but for his peace of mind I think he should aim to help first rather than just walk away now.

Well, that's my point -- "a lot of people" (feel that they regret their divorce) is a much different statement than saying that "most people" regret divorcing. I don't doubt that a lot of people regret divorcing -- I would just need to see some documentation to accept that "most" people do ... It's not just divorce; I'm always suspicious of those kind of "most people feel (or think, or do) ..." statements, regardless of the topic. My immediate response is, "Oh, yeah? Says who?"

I, also, am divorced (after seven years of marriage). It was not a hasty decision at the time -- nearly everyone I was close to encouraged me to leave him for years before I finally did; we did extensive marriage therapy before we separated and even our couples' therapist finally advised us that was the best thing we could do; and I have never regretted my decision (and it was my decision; he didn't want to split up). Obviously, the best scenario would have been for us not to marry in the first place, but, given that we did, divorce was clearly the best other option.

Once again, I am not advising the OP to leave his wife! Just reminding him that he has other options besides just putting up with, and being miserably unhappy in, the current situation. I hope that he and his wife can work things out and enjoy a long and happy marriage, and certainly encourage anyone to seek counseling/therapy before making a decision to end a serious relationship of any kind, legal or otherwise. In this situation, again, I strongly encourage the OP to become active in Al-Anon, at least (that doesn't require any participation by his wife, who may or may not be willing to pursue marriage counseling/therapy). My parents have had a great marriage for >50 years; most of my friends are happily married; I certainly am not "anti-marriage" in any way! But the other side of the coin is that divorce is not always a bad outcome ...

Dutchgirl, I'm delighted that you're been married so long, have survived some challenges together, and are happy with your situation. However, that doesn't mean that your choices are the best choices for everyone. The reality is that ~50% of US marriages end in divorce, and I, for one, am not prepared to assume that all those people are making the wrong decision ...