[Bipley]

Originally Posted by grannynurse FNP student

One of the corner stones of the "Just Say No' is that children were encouraged to report anyone, including parents, who used drugs. This was one of the main reason's I did not nor do I now support it. And it is an oversimplistic program that has had a minimal effect on drug usage. And I have three grandchildren, one of whom just completed this program

Grannynurse

Granny....

We disagree. I have seen numerous commercials of "just say no" and in none of them did I see the suggestion to report others and especially parents. The theme of the message was, "don't do this to yourself." Don't start the addiction process, don't go with the flow, be a unique person and it is okay not to do drugs.

There have been NO presidents or 1st ladies I have respected in many years. This is NOT about respect for anyone. This is about respecting self. Nothing more and nothing less.

AND.... if a kid out there has an addicted parent it is HIGH time they broke the rule of silence and told an elder. I wish I would have done that when I was a kid. Maybe things would have been different. Protecting the addict is a thing of the past, not something to be embraced today and especially by a child living under the abuse of addiction.

Perhaps when it comes to addicted parents we need to look to the rights of children OVER the rights of an addict. Kids have rights too, they merely need to be acknowledged.

Look, both my parents were alcoholics. My mom was an alcoholic/addict and died of such. Perhaps if I would have made an issue out of it as as child she would have lived a full life. I don't know. But what I do know if that she died quite young. A sad, needless death.

I actually resent the fact that you would have a child hide his parents addiction from those that could help the CHILD.

While I agree with you that the program is ineffective, I completely and totally, 1,000,000% (yeah, I know.. not possible to disagree 1,000,000% ... but I do anyway) disagree that children should not speak up when their parents are addicts.

[LoriAlabamaRN]

Originally Posted by Bipley

Granny....

We disagree. I have seen numerous commercials of "just say no" and in none of them did I see the suggestion to report others and especially parents. The theme of the message was, "don't do this to yourself." Don't start the addiction process, don't go with the flow, be a unique person and it is okay not to do drugs.

There have been NO presidents or 1st ladies I have respected in many years. This is NOT about respect for anyone. This is about respecting self. Nothing more and nothing less.

AND.... if a kid out there has an addicted parent it is HIGH time they broke the rule of silence and told an elder. I wish I would have done that when I was a kid. Maybe things would have been different. Protecting the addict is a thing of the past, not something to be embraced today and especially by a child living under the abuse of addiction.

Perhaps when it comes to addicted parents we need to look to the rights of children OVER the rights of an addict. Kids have rights too, they merely need to be acknowledged.

Look, both my parents were alcoholics. My mom was an alcoholic/addict and died of such. Perhaps if I would have made an issue out of it as as child she would have lived a full life. I don't know. But what I do know if that she died quite young. A sad, needless death.

I actually resent the fact that you would have a child hide his parents addiction from those that could help the CHILD.

While I agree with you that the program is ineffective, I completely and totally, 1,000,000% (yeah, I know.. not possible to disagree 1,000,000% ... but I do anyway) disagree that children should not speak up when their parents are addicts.

I couldn't find anything about reporting your parents in it either...
http://www.reaganfoundation.org/reag...ust_say_no.asp

although Bipley, I do agree with you about children reporting parents. I think it would help a lot of families who otherwise wouldn't deal with their problems.

[lpressley]

To: Boysmom32
I read your post and just wanted to let you know that there is a way you can get treatment paid for by the state. I am a licensed chemical dependency counselor at Managed Care Center for Addictive/Other Disorders in Lubbock, Texas. If you contact a Department of State Health Services funded treatment center , and you're not working ,you sould qualify for treatment services paid for by the state. Treatment centers that are funded by the Department of State Health Services operate on a sliding fee scale and if you tell them you're unemployed and have kids, you should qualify for state funded treatment services or only have to pay a percentage. Dont let your pride or ego exaggerate your financial resources when doing the financial assessment. Most treatment centers/counselors would be willing to work with TNPAP to help you meet their requirements. I've worked with several nurses that were going through TNPAP to preserve their license. You can email me with any questions, I will be glad to help you get placed in a program.
L. P. LCDC

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by Bipley

Granny....

We disagree. I have seen numerous commercials of "just say no" and in none of them did I see the suggestion to report others and especially parents. The theme of the message was, "don't do this to yourself." Don't start the addiction process, don't go with the flow, be a unique person and it is okay not to do drugs.

There have been NO presidents or 1st ladies I have respected in many years. This is NOT about respect for anyone. This is about respecting self. Nothing more and nothing less.

AND.... if a kid out there has an addicted parent it is HIGH time they broke the rule of silence and told an elder. I wish I would have done that when I was a kid. Maybe things would have been different. Protecting the addict is a thing of the past, not something to be embraced today and especially by a child living under the abuse of addiction.

Perhaps when it comes to addicted parents we need to look to the rights of children OVER the rights of an addict. Kids have rights too, they merely need to be acknowledged.

Look, both my parents were alcoholics. My mom was an alcoholic/addict and died of such. Perhaps if I would have made an issue out of it as as child she would have lived a full life. I don't know. But what I do know if that she died quite young. A sad, needless death.

I actually resent the fact that you would have a child hide his parents addiction from those that could help the CHILD.

While I agree with you that the program is ineffective, I completely and totally, 1,000,000% (yeah, I know.. not possible to disagree 1,000,000% ... but I do anyway) disagree that children should not speak up when their parents are addicts.

First, you have see the TV commercials which are thirty second spots. Try going into the school programs. Second, you may resent all you wish. I grew up post WWII. A large number of children were indoctrinated to turn their parents into the authorities, during WWII and post that period. Using children to provide evidence, by turning their parent in, violates our rights under our Constitution. And I am not advocating a child hide his suspected parent's so called addiction, I object to the violation of our rights.

And by the way, my mother was an alcoholic. She never admitted to it, never sought treatment. And I never forced her to. I just accepted her, with all her faults, she was my mother.

Grannynurse

[Balder_LPN]

Originally Posted by grannynurse FNP student

One of the corner stones of the "Just Say No' is that children were encouraged to report anyone, including parents, who used drugs. This was one of the main reason's I did not nor do I now support it. And it is an oversimplistic program that has had a minimal effect on drug usage. And I have three grandchildren, one of whom just completed this program

Grannynurse

Actually, the report the parents was a conerstone of the LAPD's Drug Abuse Resistance/education (DARE) Program. This program is mostly discredited (by the fact that schools using it did not have lower rates of drug abuse than schools with no/different drug abuse awareness programs) and it has been discontinued by many areas it was once well entrenched, including LA county, where DARE originated.

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by Balder

Actually, the report the parents was a conerstone of the LAPD's Drug Abuse Resistance/education (DARE) Program. This program is mostly discredited (by the fact that schools using it did not have lower rates of drug abuse than schools with no/different drug abuse awareness programs) and it has been discontinued by many areas it was once well entrenched, including LA county, where DARE originated.

Well, I guess it proves the point, I've always maintained: Florida is a socially backward state. Hate to tell you this, DARE is alive and well, here in Florida. I just attended a school program put on by my grandson's fifth grade class and officers of the Charlotte County Sheriffs Department, using DARE.

Grannynurse

[krisssy]

Originally Posted by EDValerieRN

I didn't mean to come across as over-simplifying the matter. I think that at the DEEP DOWN CORE, one has to choose to stop, not to use, and get help.

I understand that after one makes that choice, a lot more goes into recovery and sobriety than just saying no and quitting. I didn't mean to minimize the importance of therapy, rehab, and support, because I do realize how important these things are. I think we all do.

Thank you EDValerie RN,
I am sorry that I misunderstood you. We are in complete agreemenent. Krissy RN

[krisssy]

My dad was a functioning alcoholic and a pill addict. He was also the most loving father you could ever imagine. He worked hard, made a great living, and was kind and loving to everyone. He was the best human geing I have ever known. The only thing he didn't do was protect my sister and I from my mom who was NOT an addict, but mentally ill and abused us emotionally. First of all, as a kid it NEVER would have occured to me to turn my father in anywhere. I adored him, and my greatest fear was that he would disappear from my life. He eventually died a few years ago. He died from an unrelated death at 81. I never went to DARE or JUST SAY NO. I am sure they didn't exist then. BUT I never would have wanted him taken away from me, and I never would have "turned him in" no matter what. Being an addict did not make him a bad dad. He loved me with all his heart and never did anything to hurt me-only himself. I was not mature enough to understand about the illness of addiction. If he were alive now, and the drugs or alcohol were affecting his mental and physical health, I would have an intervention. As a child, I knew nothing about what his problem was or what it meant. All I knew is that I loved and needed him so much. To hurt him by turning him in to the authorities would have hurt him and me much more than anything he ever did while taking pills or drinking. I do not think it is the place of a child to turn his or her parents in. There are other family problems and aLL KINDS OF ABUSE THAT DOES NOT INVOLVE ADDICTION. It is up to the adults who see what is going on to do what is necessary to HELP the parents and the family.
My mother was very ill mentally, and everyone knew it. No one did a thing. She was the problem, not my dad. Just because someone is an addict does not necessarily make them a bad person to be taken away from their kids.
Krisssy RN

[Balder_LPN]

Originally Posted by grannynurse FNP student

Well, I guess it proves the point, I've always maintained: Florida is a socially backward state. Hate to tell you this, DARE is alive and well, here in Florida. I just attended a school program put on by my grandson's fifth grade class and officers of the Charlotte County Sheriffs Department, using DARE.

Grannynurse

Thats to bad. DARE is alive and doing more poorly by the year locally. Some schools have droped it and others still use it.

from the website http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00/n1432/a05.html?397

Federal judge Virginia Phillips, in a case involving DARE America's libel suit against Rolling Stone magazine, ruled that there was "substantial truth" to the charges that DARE had sought to "suppress scientific research" critical of DARE and had "attempted to silence researchers at the Research Triangle Institute, editors at the American Journal of Public Health, and producers at 'Dateline.NBC'

AND
DARE's feel-good photo opportunities are no substitute for effective drug education. American children deserve something more than a drug program that fails to persuasively inform and warn them of the danger of narcotics. Politicians, school officials, and police need the courage to admit that DARE is a dud.

and from another website rapidnet.com

Another key element in the DARE program is Values Clarification, a process by which children are reprogrammed to set aside their parent's values and determine for themselves the values in life they wish to hold. It was the brainchild in the mid-1960s of social "scientists" -- in particular, Louis E. Raths, Merrill Harmin, and Sidney B. Simon. The Wall Street Journal clearly defines what is meant by values clarification:

"Teachers should never try to teach children correct values. To tell a student stealing is wrong or that kindness and loyalty are good values, would be, according to Values Clarification, to manipulate and coerce a student. Teachers should help students discover and clarify their own personal values instead of trying to force someone else's values on them."

[grannynurse FNP student]

[quote=Balder]Thats to bad. DARE is alive and doing more poorly by the year locally. Some schools have droped it and others still use it.

from the website http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00/n1432/a05.html?397

Federal judge Virginia Phillips, in a case involving DARE America's libel suit against Rolling Stone magazine, ruled that there was "substantial truth" to the charges that DARE had sought to "suppress scientific research" critical of DARE and had "attempted to silence researchers at the Research Triangle Institute, editors at the American Journal of Public Health, and producers at 'Dateline.NBC'

AND
DARE's feel-good photo opportunities are no substitute for effective drug education. American children deserve something more than a drug program that fails to persuasively inform and warn them of the danger of narcotics. Politicians, school officials, and police need the courage to admit that DARE is a dud.

and from another website rapidnet.com

Another key element in the DARE program is Values Clarification, a process by which children are reprogrammed to set aside their parent's values and determine for themselves the values in life they wish to hold. It was the brainchild in the mid-1960s of social "scientists" -- in particular, Louis E. Raths, Merrill Harmin, and Sidney B. Simon. The Wall Street Journal clearly defines what is meant by values clarification:

"Teachers should never try to teach children correct values. To tell a student stealing is wrong or that kindness and loyalty are good values, would be, according to Values Clarification, to manipulate and coerce a student. Teachers should help students discover and clarify their own personal values instead of trying to force someone else's values on them."[/QUOTE

Charlotte, Sarasota and Manatee Counties all have problems with teenage drug addiction and alcohol abuse problems. We also have problems with our students passing FICA testing and graduating from high school. The answer of our Board of Education and our Sheriff's Department is to use the DARE program. I and my daughter and SIL have taken it upon ourselves to teach our children about illegal drug abuse. And we do not use any of the cute catch words so popular with DARE. I have told my 14 year old granddaughter, that yes I tried weed, when I was 19. I also told her it was not a pleasant mind altering experience for me. She has expressed little interest in trying drugs and I hope she keeps this in mind, when she enters high school next Fall.

Grannynurse