[sharona97]

I wasn't sure where to post this question, so don't mean to step on any toes.

I have civally committed my son recently for depression, suicide attempt #2 and my new found awarness of his heavy heroin use.

I am concerned that Methadone may preempt relapse. He has chronic pain from a motorcycle accident 10 years ago. His addiction started with pain meds and then esclated to heroin.

His feedback to me is that on low doses of Methadone he can keep a quality of life that would be better for him. I don't know much about long-term use of Methadone if there is such a thing.

I'm just happy to have found him "barely" alive, and took him straight to the hospital.

Any helpful information concerning how Methadone works would be appreciated. How is a person weaned off of this?

Thanks,

Sharona

[ms. papa]

First I would like to say that I am very sorry to hear what you are going through with your son. It must be very difficult for you to see him like that and to find out that he is that sick right now.

Secondly I would like to tell you what I know about methadone. I was on it for almost 2 years from 2003-2005 as a result of an addiction to narcotic pain medication (I started with Lortab and escalated to Oxycontin.) At the time I sought help from the methadone clinic I was in nursing school and the pills that I initially started out thinking of as my 'little study helpers' had turned into demons that I had to take every 4 hours to function at all.
(Before anyone says anything, yes I chose myself to that place by doing drugs and no I am not saying the pills caused it- just stating how it felt to me then as an active addict.)

I chose methadone b/c I wanted to be able to finish school without going through a month of debilitating withdrawls. I was ready to be done with the constant and growing need for pills, I just wasn't ready to totally deal with the reality I created. Methadone is a synthetic opiate that blocks the receptors in your brain that scream at you when you don't have the drugs that your body now thinks you need to live. You don't get the euphoric "high" typically associated with narcotics, but you stay "straight" for 24 hrs from one daily dose. They claim that if while the methadone is in your system you attempt to get high with your original drug of choice that you are unable to do so b/c the receptors used to do so are full of methadone and therefore unable to react to anything else. I do not know if that is true from personal experience b/c I really did not want to go back to the others like I said, I just wasn't ready to go all the way at that point.

The important thing to remember about methadone is that you are still addicted to it. If you miss your dose you will have withdrawls. I missed mine probably 10 times and the withdrawls from the methadone are worse then from the drugs that got me on it in the first place. Of those times I missed there was 2 times that with pressure (although it didn't take much) from my now ex-husband that was in the same place I was, I gave in and took Oxycontin to reduce the symptoms for a few hours. The next day I went and got my clinic dose so I didn't officially relapse but the fact remained that I was still weak and dependent on narcotics daily to live a "normal life."

I can't say that all of these clinics are the same, but the one I went to was very much in favor of methadone for life. They actively discouraged me from weaning down to get off by telling me that if I was not on it I would go back to using. If I insisted they said that they would do it but that I could not start the process until my bill was paid in full. They were like dealers and it is their bread and butter to have you stay on it. So when I got to the point that I could take no more and was ready to be totally free of addiction I went to my personal doctor and we weaned me off of it very slowly. I was at 70mg/day when we started in Oct. 2004 and it took 6 months. Honestly 70mg down to 30mg went smoothly but it was very hard to get below that and I went back and forth a number of times. 5 mg at a time until it was 5mg/day for three days and then none. And it took an entire month after to feel normal without any drugs for the first time in 6 years. And I have been clean ever sinc

Methadone is a viable option for those who need it. I would never condem it b/c it saved my life. I don't know if I would have been able to kick the pills cold turkey and I didn't have insurance or thousands of dollars for rehab. That said, it is not going to keep someone from relapsing by itself. You have to really want a different way of life. It may not be the best b/c you aren't "drug free" but some people need a bridge to get across the rapids. I did suffer some serious physical effects including loss of appetite and weight loss, loss of taste, irritability, depression, "dark mood" and according to my family I had a death like appearance. I did not see any of this in myself but my loved ones did.

I often compare methadone to cancer treatments. The drugs (cancer) would have killed me eventually, slowly I know but the methadone (chemo) made me sick too, more sick in ways, but it saved my life. And when it was over I recovered and healed. And 11 months ago I gave birth to a beautiful baby girl that proves how resiliant our human bodies are.

I wish you and your son luck. But the most important thing in all of this is that he really wants it for himself. That is truly the biggest deterent of a relapse. Sorry this is so long but I hope I helped.

[sharona97]

mspapa,
Thank you for your frank,honest,educational answers. I'm trying to learn about the Methadone program to better help support my son.
A couple of points struck me: he was Rx'd oxycontin for is chronic pain and admits to using a months supply in 2 days. Then he hit the streets for the heroin. Would he take more than the prescribed dose of methadone this way? This is a thought in my mind. His rationale for methadone (and I agree) is that he will have a functional life, pain free.

He is already a pretty dark guy. Or can be. He's had 2 suicide attempts in 3 months. He's attempted 5 times that I know about. One he was very near death, unresponsive, and I found him (along with a 7 page letter). Could the methadone cause more of the same? In your opinion?

His goal is to be placed in a dual diagnosis program. This will be decided under civil committment in which I initiated at the time of his last hospitalization.

At this point , I am behind the methadone treatment program. It apears it's the only help line for the addiction part of this without relasping (hopefully).

He did not qualify for rule 25 (state program) because he made to much money. He has been denied inurance and his wife has never put him on her's........... We of course don't have the money for rehab and neither does he. His money went to the drugs.

He did say that he felt he could live a better quality of life off the drugs, but is concerned he wil live in pain the rest of his life. I realize that some of that needs to be talked through, but I am also realizing that with Methadone, he may have a brighter future in life and it will take work.

Thank you so much for responding, It really helps me to learn about this and to discuss the issue with someone who has been there. I'm very grateful for your honesty and your time.

Sharona

[dria]

So sorry to hear about your son, I know how hard it is to see a loved one go through this. I also know how hard it is to be there. I think Ms Papa has given you some great information. Here's another perspective/follow up to your post...

Re: taking his entire supply of meds-This won't be an issue for a while. Daily visits to the clinic for dosing are required (I forget the exact minimum timeframe.) Even when pickups are allowed, they are phased in-every other day, then 2x/week, then weekly etc. Strict rules and guidlines for attendance must be followed. Pickups are considered a privelege which can be revoked at any time. While attending the clinic, a nurse will dispense and observe dosing of the medication. Methadone liquid is used, so while the potential for diverting that dose does exist (addicts are a sneaky bunch) it is reduced.

The first week or so of attending the clinic will be a challenge. The law in my state requires patients to be started at a dose of 30mg, then titrated up for maximal symptom relief. There is a limit to how much the dose can be increased each day-I want to say 5mg or 5%, but I could be wrong. The dose used for opiate abstience is generally much larger than that for chronic pain management by several fold.

Whether treatment is lifetime or less should largely be left up to the patient. Some are able to taper their dose and remain abstinent, while other do better on lifetime maintenance treatment. Several studies do support the safety of lifetime maintenance. Withdrawing from methadone is more difficult than the original drug of choice due to it's longer half life and because methadone binds to all of the opiate receptors while most drugs of abuse bind to only one or two. Plain English: you're sicker longer. I do agree that most of the for-profit clinics really do pressure their patients to continue lifetime maintence, and I've found you really have to watch them. I've had to pull the "I'm a nurse, I know the laws and you CANT DO THIS" card several times.

Like any other substance abuse program, you get out of it what you put in. If methadone is the only thing you're using to abstain, it's very likely that you will fail. My personal opinion (FWIW) is that methadone is a tool-it stabilizes you to a point where you have the ability to make the changes that you need to make, and learn how to prevent future relapses. Like Ms. Papa illustrated, it is quite easy to relapse-all you have to do is miss your daily clinic visit.

A dual diagnosis program would likely be the best option. Not all of the clinics provide MDs that have any psych background. And do not underestimate the need to get help for yourself.

Good luck to you and your son, you are welcome to PM me any time the need arises.

[sharona97]

We are asking for a dual diagnosis pogram. It's been baby steps since we last brought him to the ER. Learn as you go I guess.

I see this opportunity for him to get well, stay well, and live well. I can only hope that with the group talk therapies his using his meds inappropriatley will be discussed and as an end result stop. Choosing to take his meds correctly is the goal and of course keeping him alive.

Thank you for your valuable input.

Sharona

[kford50]

I have been accepted into the nursing program, I was once in a clinic and now I have a doctor who treats me for methadone, blood pressure, thyriod problems..what I am saying is he isn't a free giving methadone prescriber. Anyway I would say methadone saved my life...there are so many uneducated people out there who are against it and usually are the ones who never walked in the shoes of and addict and I praise them for that and hope they stay there, however I tried cold turkey so many times, Bradford rehab, being locked down by loved ones and truly it didn't work. I didn't get were I was over night and I wasn't going to recover overnight or even in a month or three. See people don't realize that being an addict is also a lifestyle one you have to change and with methadone clinic and the tools they have, going everyday and earning the right by staying clean to get a few days of take homes was all part of the changing the way you live. You can not give an addict a weekend or a weeks worth of meds they will take them or sell them to get their d o c. If you work the program and use the tools you will get better. I lost everything and now I have a home, building a house accepted into nursing school go on vacation several times a year, enjoy my family, bought a travel trailer and spend weekends camping at the lake and yes this is because I stayed in the clinic and got better. I hated going everyday but that is a good reason to get clean. I just wanted to feel normal and methadone makes me feel normal. I will soon come completely off of methadone but not until I want to, not anyone else. I am the addict not my friends and family an I am the one who will suffer from wrong decisions. I know you have to be patient with the program b.c it took me a few weeks to stop other things and realize that the drugs I wasn't getting was being blocked by methadone. So, I think the methadone clinic would be an excellent place for him, and a lot of love don't let people put him down for the clinic. Methadone is med that is made to help addicts and with the tools to go with it, you can get better.

[sharona97]

Originally Posted by kford50

I have been accepted into the nursing program, I was once in a clinic and now I have a doctor who treats me for methadone, blood pressure, thyriod problems..what I am saying is he isn't a free giving methadone prescriber. Anyway I would say methadone saved my life...there are so many uneducated people out there who are against it and usually are the ones who never walked in the shoes of and addict and I praise them for that and hope they stay there, however I tried cold turkey so many times, Bradford rehab, being locked down by loved ones and truly it didn't work. I didn't get were I was over night and I wasn't going to recover overnight or even in a month or three. See people don't realize that being an addict is also a lifestyle one you have to change and with methadone clinic and the tools they have, going everyday and earning the right by staying clean to get a few days of take homes was all part of the changing the way you live. You can not give an addict a weekend or a weeks worth of meds they will take them or sell them to get their d o c. If you work the program and use the tools you will get better. I lost everything and now I have a home, building a house accepted into nursing school go on vacation several times a year, enjoy my family, bought a travel trailer and spend weekends camping at the lake and yes this is because I stayed in the clinic and got better. I hated going everyday but that is a good reason to get clean. I just wanted to feel normal and methadone makes me feel normal. I will soon come completely off of methadone but not until I want to, not anyone else. I am the addict not my friends and family an I am the one who will suffer from wrong decisions. I know you have to be patient with the program b.c it took me a few weeks to stop other things and realize that the drugs I wasn't getting was being blocked by methadone. So, I think the methadone clinic would be an excellent place for him, and a lot of love don't let people put him down for the clinic. Methadone is med that is made to help addicts and with the tools to go with it, you can get better.

Kford50, I've heard some of the same language coming out of my son's mouth. I admit I wanted to be educated in the methadone treatment, I was fearful of it at first. Sounds like accountability is rewarded with enough drug to get you by a few days in a row. Did you work then? Were you able to have any normalcy in life while you were going to the methadone clinic? I'm so happy that your life has changed around for you and the most beautiful things in life are sometimes missed when using was the only agenda. Many times he wouldn't show up at Christmas or birthdays. This year in March he gave me a pink bracelet and said Merry Christmas, mom. It was even wrapped with a bow. I wish you the best in nursing school, I'm sure you will enjoy being a nurse. Thank you.

Sharona

[Thunderwolf]

Here is web site to quick review, regarding Methadone:
http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Methadone.html

[victoriam85]

I found that a low dose of methadone(im on 18mg) had given me the hope that I to could live a normal life. People say its liquid handcuffs, but the way I look at it, so is heroin. Your life revolves aorund it only 24/7 unlike methadone, which takes about 10minutes a day with the driving time. I have been clean since april 28, 2007. I first got dosed the day before. It has to be his choice though-its hard to allow the path of drug use and distruction when you love that person. But methadone clinics do offer pain management so I would just find one local to you, that offers councelling &other recovery based services & also is in a good neighborhood(not around known drug areas)/ I would also go in to check out the envirment because like someone else said, some are just there for the money, and some clinics really do want to help people. I strongly reccomend methadone for severly drug addicted people- I was once 69 lbs and having atleast one seizure a day from being so unhealthy and from drug use. I never thought i would be normal and I didnt want to be. I had even struggled when I was pregnant- it was me, it was the strength of the addiction....this is the only thing that has ever worked for me, and i was also a heavy heroin user....and i reccomend it along with councelling, support groups, and meetings! GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND YOUR SON!!!I REALLY DO WISH THE BEST FOR YOU BOTH!

[victoriam85]

I also forgot to mention why I chose to go it while being pregnant and had relapsed. It was the safest thing for my unborn son, which was the most important thing of all. It stopped my cravings, it alowed me to live a normal life without going through withdrawal(and thats why i never stayed cleaned that hurdle was just to high for me to get over) and I also have just been accepted into nursing school and have my own place, a healthy son who thank god has absolutly nothing wrong with him, my own car, and my life back! Its a personnal choice and for me it was the right one!