[HM2Viking]

I found this article today:

According to the Department of Defense, the $20.5 billion will be needed to increase the size of the Active Army to 547,000 and the Marine Corps to 202,000, $15.5 billion to the Army and $5 billion to the Marines. Linda Bilmes, co-author with Joseph Stiglitz of The Three Trillion Dollar War, explains: "The recruiting budget has skyrocketed due to: (a) increased number of recruiters; (b) increased recruitment bonuses; (c) increased payments to Madison Ave advertising companies who are coming up with the marketing and research to put behind this; (d) increased outreach to 'influencers' like parents/coaches and increased pay, travel and expenses for the recruiters." Indeed, enlistment bonuses, advertising, maintaining recruitment stations and the pay and benefits of tens of thousands of military recruiters make for an expensive operation.
In February, the Army introduced the Army Advantage Fund, a new recruiting program that offers completion bonuses of up to $40,000 to buy a home or start a business. Eligibility requires a high school diploma, top 50 percent on the Army's aptitude test and three to five years of active duty in what the Army calls a "critical MOS"--an enlisted position that has high manpower shortages. But Bilmes says, "What's worth pointing out is that DoD opposes the Webb-Hagel bill to increase GI Bill educational benefits to servicemen at the cost of $4 billion per year, which would directly boost recruiting far more effectively than the strategy that DoD is following now. DoD opposes this because it worries that it will then have a retention problem."

at http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080602/mcduffee .

I think that when a young person joins the military they are joining not just to follow the flag but also for the very real desire to receive access to the tools that help them achieve personal development. Herring is dead on accurate in her assessment as to the impact of the post WWII GI bill laying the groundwork for a real middle class. We should be seeking as a society to help our veterans to be employable NOT just employed. We owe it to our veterans to make sure that we as a society keep this agreement with our veterans.

Sen. Webb has introduced his bill as a very real gesture of appreciation to veterans for their contributions. The 4 billion dollars can very reasonably be expected to yield a 5:1 ratio of improved economic productivity for our nation. That translates into 20 billion dollars in return at a minimum. I don't know whether GI bill benefits have been increased at the same rate of educational inflation but I would venture to guess that this enhancement is really just an inflationary adjustment.

[Spidey's mom]

Might be a good idea to combine this thread and the "There They Go Again" thread.


steph

[HM2Viking]

Joe Galloway (He is the journalist featured in We Were Soldiers) published an interesting article about Veterans benefits:

How strange that today in our country, in a time of war, battles are raging over the need for medical care, educational benefits, employment opportunities and assistance for those who've served honorably and come home to begin new lives in a nation they risked their lives to defend.
The shameful thing is that most of those battles are being waged against the very government, the very bureaucracies, the very politicians who sent those young men and women to war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe the right word here isn’t shameful, but criminal.
On Capitol Hill, our lawmakers debate the pros and cons of a new GI Bill that would provide our latest combat veterans with education benefits at least equal to those that their grandfathers received when they came home from winning World War II.
Our president has threatened to veto that bill if Congress passes it. The Republican candidate to succeed him, Sen. John McCain, a veteran and former prisoner of war himself, refuses to support that GI Bill and offers a watered down, cheaper substitute.
The Pentagon and the Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, a former university president, oppose better educational benefits for veterans, for fear that offering them might entice more young troops to leave the service for the campus.
This is odd, coming as it does from a president who talks a lot about supporting our troops, from a senator who draws a 100 percent military disability pension and from a former college president who surely knows the value of higher education.
...
The young people marching home from war and trying to rejoin civilian society, get a job and start a life aren't having much luck, either. The government's own statistics show that fully a quarter of returning veterans are employed in jobs that pay wages that put them below the poverty line, or less than $21,000 a year if they're single.

at http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/38171.html .

Mr. Galloway is no pantywaist and has certainly seen the price paid by veterans.

[wtbcrna]

Originally Posted by herring_RN

I pray that President Bush signs the bill.
And if it is vetoed that even more Senators vote to override the veto.

We need support for the men and women who have been sent over and over again. Called back after discharge. And after they are truly discharged they deserve the same opportunities our WWII veterans got.
That created the American middle class. It will be good for all of us.

I must have missed something in the bill. What will I be potentially be getting that the was offered to the WWII vets that I am not getting now? Our benefits are really good right now...not that I will be turning down any new benefits...lol.

[herring_RN]

Well, I'm not sure what your future education goals are because you have already earned your RN and CRNA.
I remember my Dad going from freshman the his masters in the four years allotted He attended university more than full time, worked Friday and Saturday night, and was a good Daddy

Many soldiers upon discharge don't have the education and skills to succeed in civilian life.
The bill would provide the very same opportunities to attend university or trade school.
The post WWII GI Bill created the American middle class. Imagine the benefit to so many families when those who served their country can then have the opportunity for an education.

FACTS ABOUT THE WEBB-HAGEL-LAUTENBERG-WARNER G.I. BILL
"POST-9/11 VETERANS EDUCATIONAL ASSISTANCE ACT" (S.22)

http://webb.senate.gov/pdf/factsheetgi52208.pdf

Senator Webb, Watch and listen:
http://webb.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=298313

[HM2Viking]

What's been dubbed the 21st century GI Bill passed the House last week--legislation that would increase the amount of money given to returning vets to cover tuition, books, and a living stipend -- in short, a return to the spirit of the original post World War II GI Bill. Today, soldiers receive only a fraction of the benefits that they used to, and the college costs covered by the military are usually only enough to cover about 60 percent of a public education, and far less at a private institution.
...
UPDATE: Webb's amendment passed the Senate today 75-22, and guess where John McCain was? On the Ellen DeGeneres show, and then at a high-ticket fundraiser in California with the owner of the San Diego Chargers. Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama spoke in favor of the bill and attended the vote.

at http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/322667

Who showed up to vote on this issue and make their views known on the record? Sen. McCain chose to be on the campaign trail rather than making his principled views known with an on the record vote.

On May 14, one day before the bill passed the House, McCain sent a letter to Jim Webb, its co-sponsor in the Senate, according to the Politico, hoping for a compromise to "eliminate a potential embarrassment for the Arizona Republican's presidential campaign."

at http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/322667

Sen. McCain received a 100% taxpayer paid education as a Naval Academy graduate. (Admittedly he paid for that education with his later service in the most horrendous conditions imaginable.) Why shouldn't veterans who have paid for their education in advance with their service receive similar benefits?

[wtbcrna]

Originally Posted by herring_RN

Well, I'm not sure what your future education goals are because you have already earned your RN and CRNA.
I remember my Dad going from freshman the his masters in the four years allotted He attended university more than full time, worked Friday and Saturday night, and was a good Daddy

Many soldiers upon discharge don't have the education and skills to succeed in civilian life.
The bill would provide the very same opportunities to attend university or trade school.
The post WWII GI Bill created the American middle class. Imagine the benefit to so many families when those who served their country can then have the opportunity for an education.

I am actually only in my 2nd year of CRNA school. We already get more benefits than WWII vets. It will be extremely nice to get the extra benefits, and I do agree these benefits are designed towards enlisted that leave the military before getting a college degree or retiring. I think a lot of people are getting caught up in election day politics and that is why there is so many add ons to this bill.

Just a few things:
1. All enlisted personel can go to school tution free (tution assistance) while on Active Duty. There is a yearly cap on the amount, but it is easily within the cost of most public universities.
2. All services provide for enlisted to get their Associate's degree free of charge if they will put in the required amount of time/effort. This can be especially difficult with repeated deployments, but many enlisted still manage to do it.
3. The MGIB gives all enrolled service members up to 36,000 for college as it stands right now.
4. There are many online & on base universities that specialize in military/former military students that will take only the amount that the MGIB pays and/or tution assistance (no out of pocket expenses).
5. Most military training is not meant to give a service person a civilian equilavent job once they get out. Mlitary training is designed to give people the tools to suceed in life in general, but it is up to the individual person from there. Not everyone is meant to suceed in college and someone that makes a thirty on the ASVAB is going to have trouble suceeding in college no matter what kind of benefits the government throws at them.

Again the added benefits are really nice, but it I think people are getting too caught up in election politics.
The next thing I think we l see as soon as these benefits go up is the universities that specialize in military members will increase their tution/fees almost as soon as this is passed.

[herring_RN]

Currently less than 2% of college students are veterans. I am glad those currently serving have the opportunity but among my family members the very people who served and are serving in Iraq don't do so.
Today I will see a nephew who is still serving. He become a software engineer while in the service. He plans to retire soon.
As a relatively young man those skills will serve him well in civilian life.
I agree with the Texas representative that our soldiers deserve our support when in active service and afterward too.

By Texas State Representative Rick Noriega:

...Sen. Cornyn argues that financing higher education for veterans would encourage soldiers to leave the military to attend college. The notion that we should limit benefits to force our troops to stay in the military is morally repugnant. The knowledge I gained while attending college is instrumental in the work I do as a member of the Texas House of Representatives and as a lieutenant colonel in the Texas Army National Guard. I believe that higher education should be a reality for any American who wants it, and I am disheartened by Cornyn's desire to deny this valuable right to the honorable men and women of the armed forces. A stronger GI Bill will help military recruitment, attracting America's most capable and gifted volunteers to the military during a time when we need more troops than ever.

While we take today to honor the sacrifices made by the American soldiers who put their lives on the line to protect this nation, let us not forget their dedication and sacrifice every day of the year. Our armed forces deserve our support while they are in service to America and after they return home....

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...k/5801443.html

[HM2Viking]

Far too many veterans return home to poverty level jobs. That in and of itself is an argument for the enhanced GI Bill. (Many enlisted military specialties have job skills that are transferrable to the civilian sector but some (11B infantry or BM Boatswains Mate for example tend to be uniquely military in their application)) These jobs are needed by the military. In exchange we need to make sure that these members return home with an opportunity and support for additional training.

[HM2Viking]

Interestingly enough the CBO anticipates that any attrition from enhanced GI Bill educational benefits would be offset by increased recruiting.

Mr. Bush — and, to his great discredit, Senator John McCain — have argued against a better G.I. Bill, for the worst reasons. They would prefer that college benefits for service members remain just mediocre enough that people in uniform are more likely to stay put.
They have seized on a prediction by the Congressional Budget Office that new, better benefits would decrease re-enlistments by 16 percent, which sounds ominous if you are trying — as Mr. Bush and Mr. McCain are — to defend a never-ending war at a time when extended tours of duty have sapped morale and strained recruiting to the breaking point.
Their reasoning is flawed since the C.B.O. has also predicted that the bill would offset the re-enlistment decline by increasing new recruits — by 16 percent. The chance of a real shot at a college education turns out to be as strong a lure as ever. This is good news for our punishingly overburdened volunteer army, which needs all the smart, ambitious strivers it can get.

at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/op...in&oref=slogin .