Jan 28, 2008 08:58 AM - It's all in the eye of the beholder. As nurses, we try to apply critical thinking skills. But, not everyone interprets, what they see & experience, the same way.
We can find many of the same problems in our own country without half trying. Our challenge is to advocate for our patients no matter who they are or where they are from in a non-judgmental manner while using sound rational judgment.

Jan 29, 2008 06:34 PM - I think the article was a little bit over the top. I am Muslim, born in America a African-American and a Nurse and yes I've been Muslim all my life. I will tell you first hand that this is not Islam this is more culture. I know personally people who have been across seas and they incorporate their culture inside the religion of Islam. I think that as human beings we need to first learn what is truth and what is not before we label a religion based on just a few ignorant people. There is 1.6 billion muslims in this world and we are not all bad. This article only describe the negative and it is not that far from being bias. I take great offense to the article because he associated islam with people's ignorance and their cultural practices. I try to treat people regardless of what religion they are with great respect this is what true islam teaches to respect your neighbor even if they are different from you. We need to stick to what is important that is providing care not judging people's religions.

Jan 30, 2008 05:13 AM - Thank you for the information. I really appreciate it. I just wished it came before dec 3 last year. My wife left for saudi on that day.

In 1993 I was a contract worker in the eastrn province of saudi arabia. I wasn't able to finished my contract bec i needed to come home since after 3 mos my brother was diagnosed with cancer. At that time i wasn't a nurse, instead i was a general worker (laborer, buggage handler) in the airport. My experiences there was both good and bad. But i can definetly say it was more of the bad side. I was almost slapped by a mutawa because it was during prayer time so all stores were closed. We sat by the sidewalk waiting for the store to open and along came the mutawa screeming "sala, sala" all over. when he saw as he started coming towards as and we just stayed there since we couldn't understand what he was saying (many saudis [no offense] could hardly speak or understand english during that time. i don't know the situation now. It could have change). When he got near us i was the one nearest to him so i saw that he was already about to slapped me, as much as i wanted to beat the #@### out of him, i couldn't. So we ran away from him like chickens!! It was not his fault that he was born to a culture, society that is very different from mine. besides, as a filipino in saudi, sad to say, but we really don't have any rights there. It was only in saudi where i experienced being asked by a saudi male (secretary of my boss when i got promoted and transfeered to the office) to have a relationship with him!!!! When i told my supervisor about that incident, he made it a point that someone from our company will really get me after office hour because he got scarred that i might get raped (yes it does happen often in saudi. not just females get rape.). After 2 weeks, i was pulled out of the office and transferred to a safer work area.I couldn't understand then, because he has a wife and LOTS of kids. I should had known his intentions then because everytime he asked for picture of me and i show him a picture of me and wife (who was my girlfriend then), he keeps on covering the face of my wife and he just keeps on staring on my picture (with his mouth partially openned). Now, i know better why they are like that (i wouldn't elaborate because others might be offended).

A lot of things happened during my stay there. But just like in any place, there are some good saudis who will really helped you. It was our saudi company supervisor who helped me get my money in one of the banks since i needed to asked my parents for my airfare going back to the philippines and the bank was holding my money transferred for 3 weeks. It was just because with the helped of our saudi personnel that i was able to come home.

And now, i am going back again! As much as i don't want to go back in any part of KSA, i have no choice. I took up nursing and i can't find any nursing job here in the philippines that the pay can help me survive on my own. the average salary of a nurse here is $200-$350/mo less taxes. Atleast in KSA i was offered SR2K tax free. I do want to go to the US someday (my wife and i did passed the nclex and my wife's I140 was submitted last year), but with retrogression no chance to getting there anytime soon. So right now, i have to go back to saudi and just hope that things did change for the better since my contract is 2 years. I'm still waiting for my male nurse visa in saudi.

To the americans, the worst working condition in your hospital is already heaven to us comparred to the working condition in my country. That is why we do our best to get to the US. You have the american dream (which anyone can get regardless of who you are) in my country only a few people can have any chance of getting out of the rat race.

To the muslims who reacted to the the first article that was posted by 43RN20, i see nothing wrong with was written, it was not an attack (bad mouth) on Islam, a religion whom i regard with great respect. I am Christian, but i grew up in mindanao with lots of muslim friends and neighbor. What was posted was just what was experienced in saudi just like my experienced.

Lets be honest, the saudis practiced Islam that is very different from the Islam that is practiced in my country or other western countries. Atleast in my country or other western countries (I think) muslim women have rights and can speak for themselves. Not in KSA (no offense), my guess is that is what the saudis think is best for them. So I do my best not to judge them since who the am i to judge anyone. I just respect there belief without insisting that my belief is right. who knows, maybe there practice is right and i am wrong...just my opinion. Hope i didn't offend anyone, if i did it wasn't intentional.

To 43RN20 again, thank you for your post. It was honest just like what i believe americans should be.

If i don't get banned from this forum, i will still post my up coming new experiences from KSA on this site when i get there. I just wish no one would proposed to me again there!!!(there are a lot of girls for crying out loud)!!

Jan 30, 2008 08:41 AM - Welcome fil murse07. I am glad you found this website.
Sorry to hear about your struggles to make a living in your homeland. Loneliness can be the worst part of any foreign assignment! If your wife is already on assignment in SA, I would hope that you would be able to see each other when you get there even if you are not working in the same facility. It is a fascinating land that the two of you could explore together. Knowing the customs as well as you do, you will hopefully be able to avoid pitfalls. Don't give up on coming to the USA. Maybe you can start by coming as a visitor. My husband was a marine & based in your country during part of the Korean War. He remembered well the soft hearts of the people, but how poor they were then & how unsettled some of the country still was. He often talked about a young boy, named Rudy, who became a friend. Stay in touch.

Feb 05, 2008 10:06 PM - culture and religion are completely two different subjects. The person who wrote this article was generalizing. just because one family acts a certain way does not mean the entire people of saudia arabia are like that. Listen it comes down to this just because she had a bad experience doesnt mean thats how everyone will feel. She was telling her side of the story thats subjective not objective.


In case anyone is confused here is where badmouthing Islam comes in--------these statements are false and misjudging. Do not judge a bird by its feathers but only by its sweet chirping in the early morning.

"this Islamic country is ruled by Sharia Law, and Women’s Rights are virtually non-existent. Although a state of world-wide unrest exists with the Radical Islamic countries, because of oil reserves, a policy of appeasement has been adopted by the United States."
" Religious Law is Civil Law in this country. Because it is interpreted literally, it is enforced without mercy. Sharia Law identifies anyone who is not a Muslim as an Infidel and an enemy. Muslims are specifically ordered to not befriend unbelievers. Mateen Elass explains the implications of this in her book, Understanding the Koran. According to standard Islamic jurisprudence, Sharia Law today, interprets the Koran as obligating Muslims to be under the rule of expansionist jihad (holy war). This is understood as armed struggle against unbelievers, whether or not the Muslim community had been attacked."

Feb 15, 2008 11:40 AM - What a well written and informative article. Thank you for the information ! Gary

Feb 15, 2008 12:13 PM - The comment is much appreciated. As you may have noticed the article received a little flac. Have you been to or are you thinking about going to S.A.?

Feb 17, 2008 01:43 PM - Wow, what a bunch of critics. Thos who ironically say they know soooo much about the culture in SA and yet they say they have never been there?? They have no problem throwing 43RN20 under the bus, someone who has been there and has expereinced the culture up front and personal, not just heresay from relatives who are comfy with the lifestyle. I have met many people from other cultures who are happy with thier way of life, and so be it, they do not know any other way of life. They may be uncomforatable with our lifestyle and they have a right to that opinion. We as Americans and other natives do know another way of life, that is called freedom? Are you critics aware of this? Women have rights here, just incase you did not know. I feel 43RN20 wrote an excellent article that was very informative for anyone wanting to go to SA. She listed PROS and cons and she did not bash any religion. She stated subj. & object. opinions based on her experience, cause here in America we are permitted to do that. Based on what she wrote, as an American I would know to research the religion and culture prior to going there, and that was her teching us to give respect to the natives of SA. I found interest in possibly working there for a year, based on what she said. I would know what to exspect if I worked there, based on what she said. Hmmmm, sounds like I understood the pros and cons of what she said instead of interpreting it and "judging" her, which is what you all criticized her harshly for doing. I guess it is ok for you and not her? It is a common fact that Women have no right there and must be coverd head to toe. Moonlight jewels, why else do you think women have to sit in the back of the bus, remain quiet w/ thier head down and other cruel treatments their ladies are subjected to?? Aslo you criticized RN20 but did not support your criticism with WHY her statement were misgiving and false??

Next,based on a research experience my entire RN clas had to partake in, each country upholds a different version of what that religion means to them. the 6 in my group were chosen to study Muslims based in Egypt/Africa which followed a completely different belief syst. than other Muslim groups. A Christan in CO might follow anextreme version of the bible with a NC Christian following a conservative version. 43RN20 was stating what she learned of the group based out of SA. I did not hear, see, or get the impression that she was judging ALL Muslims, Islams, Christians... (DojahRN)And I have yet to treat or see an Arab treated in my state, who had an "entourage" with them and was able to "call the shots" In this country we do not tolerate disrespect of Nurses just because they have a vagina, and if you choose to not follow Dr's protocols, you can see your self out of the Hospital. And thank God & American laws for that. I am greatful the SA royals prefer us, tat states something about the care we give. I hold myself to a high standard of patient care, and I dont think RN20 was trying to say we should treat SA's like crap. Again, 43RN20, thanks for the insight

Feb 17, 2008 09:09 PM - its an informative article for those nurses who r curious and want to work in the middle east,i myself worked for 8 years in saudi arabia my working experienced with the saudi nurses even saudi patients and other nationality i can say that i have a gud relation with them, in my own opinion the thing that you should always remember when you are going to other countries like middle east you have to know and learn their culture and follow their law and as long as you know that you will not be in trouble.

Feb 20, 2008 01:40 PM - Hi,
I think Sultanate of Oman is much more safe then Saudi or UAE, from my own experience.