Nov 11, 2007 04:16 PM - Our Associate program was rigorous and difficult to complete, however, our local hospitals know that the graduates have been put through the ringer and truly want to be nurses. They are in demand and often start in specialty areas.
I believe the schools are so hard on the students due to wanting the entire class to pass the NCLEX the first time. I truly think there were nurses who needed a little hand holding, or nudge to be good. Unfortunately, failing them made them losses to the nursing community.
Maisy

Nov 15, 2007 01:49 PM - In my ADN program, students were treated so harshly, it bordered on abuse. Most of us were in our thirties and we were really too old to be treated this way. It's been seven years since my graduation. Whenever I speak with a former classmate, however, I'm surprised at how angry we all still are, even after all this time.

Nov 21, 2007 02:34 PM - I don't know if ADN programs are more prone to abuse or harsh treatment of students as compared to the typical BSN program. It would be interesting to hear from students or graduates of BSN programs, as to their experiences. As stated before, my perspective is very limited and can't be generalized. This whole topic would certainly make a fascinating research study.

Nov 21, 2007 04:58 PM - Many times failing the nurse is not a loss to the community, but a good service. Not everyone is cut out to be nurses. Nurses can fail for not taking responsibility, not being prepared, not being safe and for poor grades. As nurses, we would not want to work with another nurse that is a danger to her patients or to the facility. We owe that much to the community. My LPN program was very rigorous and many times the clinical instructor was absolutely hateful. No instructor should behave this way. It would make a good study to see the student perception of the LPN, ADN and BSN. My ADN was a breeze compared to the LPN. The rumor is that the PhD program in our area is hateful and nasty to the nurses. I do think hatefulness is totally uncalled for. We should be role modeling the behaviors we want our students to repeat. Great idea for the study. Maybe I will do it sometime. (When I have some free time)

Nov 30, 2007 06:04 PM - Thank you for this information. You are not the first person I have heard this from. I know now that ADN programs are more intense. My question is... why?

Nov 30, 2007 10:18 PM - My ADN program was intense, but out of 60 of us, none were weeded out. Absolutely none. We graduated 62 because two LPNs joined un the 2nd year. I don't think it's necessary to weed out students. Just present the material, teach it well, and those who can't make it aren't going to make it.

Nov 30, 2007 11:57 PM - My AD program weeded out more than 1/2. It was rigorous, tiresome, like basic training for two years (and I did that, too as a military recruit!!) And, always, endless mindgames played by the majority of instructors. It was ridiculous.

All the BSN nurses I spoke to, none had a story like this. They were treated like the adult learners they were, with one exception. The RN-BSN bridge program I had started. What a nightmare. It was like the AD program all over again. And a lot of the old party line of "the only professional nurses are BSN graduates" over and over again. I found it unnecessary and insulting. And I did not like the way the professors lectured people arriving (quietly) late to class. They were adults, for heaven's sake. This sounds petty, but after 2 years of that, I was not ready for another intense year more of the same thing.....

I actually remember the night after pinning, feeling such relief I was done. I felt 1000 lbs off my shoulders; it was hard to believe I had actually made it. The elation was unreal--- and like Hellllo, I have a bad taste in my mouth of that program, 10 years later after graduation. I felt like some people came away with a mild form of PTSD, almost. And sadly, many are not even practicing today. I guess the AD instructors felt "justified" in their treatment of us, in the way of "preparing" us for the "real" world of dog-eat-dog nursing. I can see how they would feel that way. But it was not an environment too conducive to productive learning, IMHO.

But overall, I would say, observing unscientifically, the BSN graduates were every bit as well-prepared clinically and professionally as we were----without all the drill sergeant treatment and horrendous attrition rates! How I wish I had lived closer to the nearest Uni offering a generic BSN in the first place. I am now finally in a place where I am considering an Online RN-BSN or MSN program. I think that is probably the right way for me to go....

Great article, Vicky. Well thought-out and articulate!

Dec 04, 2007 08:31 AM - Vicky,
I feel that your article left something to be desired.
You carefully left out dialogue concerning a comparison of how professionally prepared you felt one degree candidate was over another. I found that interesting. Traditionally, ADN graduates do better than their peers, the BSN graduates, on NCLEX testing. This would suggest that the weeding out process experienced thru ADN programs might be somewhat effective. Still, the manner in which this is achieved is arguably inappropriate. While your BSN program introduces nursing in the third year of a Bacculaureate program, many schools start from the beginning. Hence, much information necessary to test appropriately and to effectively nurse are forgotten. It should be noted that most ADN programs require from one to two years of prerequisite course completion inorder to be considered for a spot in a nursing degree program. Further, while BSN grads spend the same amount of time clinically, it has been my experience that ADN grads have a better grasp of the Nursing process and are better prepared for bedside nursing where BSN grads are better prepared for management nursing. That "boot camp" process that many nursing grads talk about allows instructors an ability to give their students an opportunity to use their minds in a new way. What we need is a blend of these concepts, not two opposed programs that offer their own built-in limitations. I was disappointed that you, as a professional instructor, either didn't point this out or maybe you haven't recognized it yet. Maybe we need to look farther in our past when three year Diploma Nursing programs not only stressed the techinical side of nursing but allowed time for leadership.

Dec 05, 2007 12:45 PM - Very interesting!

I think there is some level of inappropriate treatment that goes on in my BSN program but it is not widespread and has been contained to a few cases. Most of which were brought to our directors attention and then resolved.

The one thing I do notice is that the "adult" vs. "college" students get treated somewhat differently. If you are a typical college student (ie 20ish years old) you are reprimanded for being a minute late, for "complaining" (questioning things) and things of that nature more than if you are an "adult" (ie 30 years or older). But that is just my program personally. Overall, I think all the students are treated pretty well and the vast majority of profs and instructors try very, very hard to be fair.

Dec 06, 2007 02:33 PM - Vicky, thanks for great article! Wonderful insight!