[RN34TX]

Originally Posted by TennRN2004

I don't think that would be a good idea at my hospital though. We have some nurses who tend to dope the patients up, even if the patient does not require that level of sedation. I wouldn't be comfortable with some of these nurses having such a wide range of sedation to choose from. Do those of you that use have this type of problem?

If anything, my hospital has nurses who have the direct opposite problem than at your hospital.
"Oh they don't need that,they're doing just fine."
Some don't want to restrain or sedate their patients due to the work and documentation involved.

Before you know it, they're yelling for help because their patients are halfway out of the bed with every tube they once had pulled out.

[gasmn2b]

Our facility uses a vent bundle on any vented patient regardless of what pulmonary guys are on the case. It includes a sedation set that includes intermittent Ativan and Morphine(fairly liberal amounts) or Propofol and Ativan drips that are titrated to desired effects. The doctors just check what they want us to use. When we use neuromuscular blockers we use another protocol separately.

[kersti]

A sedation protocol- unfortunately we don't have one and it does cause a lot of pointless running after the docs begging for more propofol et al because the pat. is restless, trying to pull out various lines etc. Sounds like a great idea! Wonder how long it would take me to convince the docs that this is a good idea????

[RN34TX]

Originally Posted by kersti

Sounds like a great idea! Wonder how long it would take me to convince the docs that this is a good idea????

It depends on how big of control freaks your docs are and how receptive they are to new ideas outside of their world.

[housoj]

Would you be able to share these protocal order sheets? I am trying to find examples as our hospital is in the process of developing these "sedation holiday" protocols. It is all part of the bundle orders for prevention of VAP?
housoj at aol if possible

[dorimar]

I am sure JACHO will be all over this very soon. I thought every place was using sedation protcals, sedation vacations, and vent bundles already(evidenced based practice).

[millkay]

I thought every place was using sedation protcals, sedation vacations, and vent bundles already(evidenced based practice).

Unfortunately, it takes some time for even evidence based practices to trickle to some facilities, namingly rural areas- not that the right things aren't being one. I've experienced a recent situation where orders for sedation and vent bundles are done by daily written order of a control-freak pulmonologist/intensivist as opposed to unit or facility protocols. Usually the orders reflect evidence-based best practices, but leave the nurse little to no leeway for using judgement.

[dorimar]

But if it is really evidenced based practice, bravo to that pulmonologist! I see so many people resistant to change, despite what evidence has proven. Less sedation, and waking the patient every day, has decreased ICU stays, and decreased vent days, and increased positive outcomes. Just like the new insulin protocals. Some nurses are not familiar with the research... Some nurses can't understand why a patient is on an insulin drip with BS of 200, so asks the Doc she knows whill agree, to DC said insulin drip (Q 1 Hour accuchecks and insulin adjustment is a lot of work). Just so wrong. Now instituting sepsis bundles is my next goal (early goal directed therapy). Who can argue with EVIDENCE. But some always will.

[skelley5]

I work at a hospital that has a vent sedation protocol and I love it! The MD usually orders this w/ every vented pt but not always. It's based on the pt's age and wt as to how much you can give. The protocol starts off w/ ativan 1-2 mg IVP every so many mins prn to reach a specified RASS (Richmond Agitation Sedation Scale) w/ 0 = alert/calm -1 = drowsy w/ eye opening greater than 10 secs, etc. The MD will write an order for the RASS score to keep the pt at. If ativan doesn't work, then you can start giving fentanyl IVP prn every so many mins to reach the certain RASS. The if you use over a certain amt of ativan and fentanyl in a certain amt of time, you start the pt on an ativan and/or fentanyl gtt. If on both gtts for over 24 hrs and the RASS level can still not be achieved under a certain amt, the final step is to start the pt on a propofol gtt stoping sedation q 12 hrs to check neuro status. I think it's great as long as nurses follow the protocol strictly. Two places seem to get people into trouble. One, the don't follow the sequence and go straight to the diprivan. Two, the q shift neuro check gets neglected a lot of the time, so, if you had a pt that didn't have a neuro check for over 3 shifts, the pt could have had a stroke that could have improved w/ interventions but it was caught too late.

[working4aBSN]

We have preprinted orders for ventilation patients and on the these orders is had a protocol for sedation and I have seen some hospitals use the Ramsey scale and the Riker scale. We currently use the Riker scale and usually is a 3-4 which means the patient is sedated but comfortable. I like this protocol because it gives me the opportunity to judge and see what is comfortable for the patient. We also do sedation vacations so we can assess the neuro status of the patients.