[sirI]

Originally Posted by esc_ernurse

Siri,

Thank you so much for all of your advice about legal nurse consulting. I am thinking about taking Vicki M.'s course. I know you said that is where you got started. I am an Emergency Department nurse with TNCC (Trauma Cert.) and will have 3 years experience as an RN in May of this year. I have read in Vicki's info. she mailed you need at least 3 years experience. I know as nurses we learn something new everday but with a nurse who has almost 3 years experience I was worried about taking this step to become a Legal Nurse Consultant. I love law and have said since I was a child I think I want to be a lawyer but I also love nursing that is why I think this would be a very good fit for me. I also have experience with telemarketing and customer service which I know would help with marketing but I also know I still have a lot to learn. I am nervous and I am excited - I think I am about ready to go to one of Vicki's courses.
I again thank you for all of your kind and helpful posts to us who are new to this and getting ready to start. It made me feel a lot better and help my nerves to hear you say that you on your first case was nervous and that every one will be. I feel as I can do this. Please everyone say a prayer for me. I am in the Atlanta area and I see so many commercials from attorneys who could definately use the services of a legal nurse consultant. Thanks again to you Siri and good luck to all.
I also have a question for you Siri - you said you also consult out of your area - how do you do this - via mail - I think you said you don't travel except to testify? Thanks again for everything.

Sincerely,
esc_ernurse

Hello, esc_ernurse,

I am so glad that you are considering CLNC. I think you will be very satisfied. Thank you for the kind words.

Your experience in the ED will be a plus for you. Excellent.

To answer your question about consulting out side of my area. ..... I do mail marketing packages and use email only if I have an established relationship with the attorney. I really do not like doing email encounters (intially). Far too impersonal. I do subcontracting work with CLNCs in other states as well.

When you get ready to order the course (attend the course), just let me know. I'll give ya a heads up.

You are gonna love it. But, remember, it is hard work. You just don't magically say, "legal nurse consultant" and expect to get all the work you want. Many fall by the wayside with this because they are not committed and do not market properly. There are many RNs certified as CLNC and many more who are certified with other organizations who are not actively practicing. Takes determination. But, oh so rewarding. And, that first case...........nothing like it.

Good luck and please, do keep in touch. I do care. I am here for you.

[JKDON]

I am realatively new to this field, but luckily have hooked up with a very experienced nurse who worked before her Milazzo class and after. To get our business incorporated, we have spent considerable time on a business plan. Unfortunately there is little literature on starting this particular business, especially if you want to specialize. We've looked under consulting and legal nursing in the North American Industry Classification Reference and can't find anything like it. We are going for a recruiting and mentoring business model.
My partner spent some time with about 20 of the med-mal attorneys she works with, several of the insurance firms she has worked with and is continuing to contact the JDRNs she knows so that we know what is missing in this market, and hopefully we could provide that element.

Interestingly enough, those she talked with did not care if there was LNC training or certification in LNC. Many stated that they've had better luck with those who aren't trained. I found this odd. The Milazzo class was not well received. One firm likened it to a nurse who has never worked neonatal intensive care, but goes away for a conference and comes back certified and thinks he/she is an expert in it and wants $150/hr to get on the stand and talk as if she was. Appearently the experience made a bigger difference to these particular firms for expert witnesses. Because of this, my partner is removing the training from the education part of her CV and just adding to her general information area as a past certification in legal nursing. She has not worked hands on for about 20 years but has a Masters and is an FNP. Her most recent work is in risk management. The attorney's liked this. The most popular answer among those we spoke to was that there is a lack of general nursing reviewers out there. Everyone either wants to be a super specialist or a broker.
I think I have decided not to take a course right now, but may consider later to learn about the recruiting part I wonder if attorneys feel that LNCs are nurses who no longer want to work the floor and think they can make a lot of money working from home. Not everyone has the insight to think through records and processes like this. I wonder if many of the people who are struggling to get their LNC business going thought it was something else when they took the course. I also wonder if one poster is right, is it oversaturated.
We'll see how our business goes. We also hope to offer some kind of mentoring for those who are qualified to work as experts but do not feel comfortable with it. Like I did when I was first asked to review a record. I thought I had to know legal ease too just to review a record and give my opinion. Don't you know very qualified people who would make great experts but wouldn't think of doing it because of the intimidation, or the unknown.
Does anyone think this is an area to work on?
At any rate, I think Milazzo does a great job and many people go out and work hard, but only a handful are successul. It is distressing to network and hear this.
I also think that the identity is important. Imagine the quality of materials you would get from a law firm. Not kinkos quality. To compete with the clients we are seeking, we probably need to offer the same quality of products, tools etc. We will not have a website as that is looked down upon if you plan to review or testify yourself. So I'm being told.
Thanks to those who network here so we can all learn. I hope our situation works out, like many here do for themselves and it certainly helps to link up with someone who has done this before.
Not that our research represents the majority, but found it interesting once we surveyed these people. I believe there were about 5 states represented in our query so far. We'll see how it goes.
Good luck to all.
J

[sirI]

I am realatively new to this field, but luckily have hooked up with a very experienced nurse who worked before her Milazzo class and after. To get our business incorporated, we have spent considerable time on a business plan. Unfortunately there is little literature on starting this particular business, especially if you want to specialize. We've looked under consulting and legal nursing in the North American Industry Classification Reference and can't find anything like it. We are going for a recruiting and mentoring business model.
My partner spent some time with about 20 of the med-mal attorneys she works with, several of the insurance firms she has worked with and is continuing to contact the JDRNs she knows so that we know what is missing in this market, and hopefully we could provide that element.

You might try here:

http://www.nurse-entrepreneur-networ...ow=21&dept=all

There are many organizations out there. Be careful, however. I know of a couple LNCs who have utilized a "marketing expert" and have nothing to show for it. Spent thousands for something that they could have done with a little research and far less dollars.

Interestingly enough, those she talked with did not care if there was LNC training or certification in LNC. Many stated that they've had better luck with those who aren't trained. I found this odd.

Exactly correct. Many attorney-clients do not have a preference. But, when they actually work with the LNC who is trained properly, they change their attitudes. The attorney is a professional who expects quality and the LNC who is prepared with additional education can rise to meet their expectations.

The Milazzo class was not well received. One firm likened it to a nurse who has never worked neonatal intensive care, but goes away for a conference and comes back certified and thinks he/she is an expert in it and wants $150/hr to get on the stand and talk as if she was. Appearently the experience made a bigger difference to these particular firms for expert witnesses. Because of this, my partner is removing the training from the education part of her CV and just adding to her general information area as a past certification in legal nursing.

I've had to opposite reaction regarding the training received through the Milazzo Institute. And, let me please correct this incorrect statement. Vickie Milazzo does not prepare RNs to be expert witnesses. This is reinforced throughout the program and beyond. A nurse cannot be an expert in every field of nursing. Even the AALNC has a statement that the RN who serves as an expert witness must be an expert in that field. In no way shape form or fashion does the Milazzo program prepare the RN to be an expert witness.

Experience IS the difference among RNs to be able to testify as an expert. YEARS of experience.

If your partner deletes this training from her CV it should be for other reasons.

She has not worked hands on for about 20 years but has a Masters and is an FNP. Her most recent work is in risk management. The attorney's liked this. The most popular answer among those we spoke to was that there is a lack of general nursing reviewers out there. Everyone either wants to be a super specialist or a broker.

Now, most attorneys' do like to see the RN current in nursing. Currently employed. Yes, if the nurse is not experienced in "general nursing", attorney's usually are not interested. LNC education or no.

I think I have decided not to take a course right now, but may consider later to learn about the recruiting part I wonder if attorneys feel that LNCs are nurses who no longer want to work the floor and think they can make a lot of money working from home. Not everyone has the insight to think through records and processes like this. I wonder if many of the people who are struggling to get their LNC business going thought it was something else when they took the course. I also wonder if one poster is right, is it oversaturated.

Sure, this field is full of nurses wanting an "easy" way out. But, as you know, this is not easy. MUCH work involved in order to be successful. That is one problem many face, the inability to make this work. They will go into legal consulting for a "quick" buck and never learn the marketing skills. They fail. As for being oversaturated? I don't think so. Reason: There are more individuals in law school than there are lawyers actually in practice. And, unfortunately, medical malpractice is a commonality everywhere.

We'll see how our business goes. We also hope to offer some kind of mentoring for those who are qualified to work as experts but do not feel comfortable with it. Like I did when I was first asked to review a record. I thought I had to know legal ease too just to review a record and give my opinion. Don't you know very qualified people who would make great experts but wouldn't think of doing it because of the intimidation, or the unknown.
Does anyone think this is an area to work on?

I think that is a good plan. If the RN is an expert in his/her field, most will benefit from this type of mentoring service. As for reviewing a record, you need not be an expert in that particular field. Experience as a nurse. Overall experience counts here. And, as you know, you will assist in the prep for taking the stand. The attorney will actually prepare and not the LNC mentor for the LNC is not an attorney and cannot offer any advice in legalities.

Yes, many are qualified to testify, but will not for those exact reasons. Intimidation by the attorney/s representing both sides. But, that is a tactic employed with every expert witness, not just nurses.

I might add, in this business I have found the majority of LNCs have zero desire to be expert witnesses. They are consultants only. It takes a very special individual to be an expert. And, again, education for the RN to be LNC does not include educating the RN to be expert witness.

At any rate, I think Milazzo does a great job and many people go out and work hard, but only a handful are successul. It is distressing to network and hear this.

You are correct. Many go forth and few are successful. But, isn't this true in any business venture? Not all can be successful.

I also think that the identity is important. Imagine the quality of materials you would get from a law firm. Not kinkos quality. To compete with the clients we are seeking, we probably need to offer the same quality of products, tools etc. We will not have a website as that is looked down upon if you plan to review or testify yourself. So I'm being told.

Correct again. The LNC who wants his/her business to be quality must be ready to spend the money in order to have a first rate business. Yes, you can begin small and work up to that goal. I've spent much readying my business. It doesn't happen overnight. Takes time and effort. As for the website, I disagree that it is a hinderance. Anytime the nurse testifys, everything about that nurse will be utilized to "discredit" the creds. That begins with the CV/resume'. Owning a website will not make this anymore difficult. Communication via this avenue is an additional professional plus. Image, image, image.

Thanks to those who network here so we can all learn. I hope our situation works out, like many here do for themselves and it certainly helps to link up with someone who has done this before.
Not that our research represents the majority, but found it interesting once we surveyed these people. I believe there were about 5 states represented in our query so far. We'll see how it goes.
Good luck to all.

And, thank you for your comments. I do wish you much success. Sounds as if you have a plan. Good luck.

[mashka]

Ok, here we go, my first posting! My name is Mary and I am currently taking the Kaplan course (just started). I have been trying like crazy to absorb the tips from all of you. Thanks, guys!

One question is burning in my mind right now. In your opinion, what percentage of your mailed marketing materials actually get past the receptionist to the intended recipient? I am just envisioning many dollar signs going towards a trash bin. Then, with e-mails-- who usually is the first one to read them-- would you say they may go directly to the intended?

Thanks again,
Mary

[sirI]

Originally Posted by mashka

Ok, here we go, my first posting! My name is Mary and I am currently taking the Kaplan course (just started). I have been trying like crazy to absorb the tips from all of you. Thanks, guys!

One question is burning in my mind right now. In your opinion, what percentage of your mailed marketing materials actually get past the receptionist to the intended recipient? I am just envisioning many dollar signs going towards a trash bin. Then, with e-mails-- who usually is the first one to read them-- would you say they may go directly to the intended?

Thanks again,
Mary

Hello, Mary and Welcome to Allnurses.com and the Legal Nurse forum.

I have not made any stats for myself, but I have spoken to many an LNC about this very topic.

First of all, I do zero marketing via email. To me, that is very impersonal and a less than industrious way to market oneself.

I send out mailings and follow up judiciously by telephone. Also, I do cold calls (my least favorite, but can be most productive).

Yes, you can spend many dollars on marketing. You must be prepared for that. But, receiving only one case will cancel out the expenses. Also, you will learn to tweak your marketing packets and mail out the "hook" that will "reel" in the "fish". (sorry for all the cliches'..........).

The emails should go to the intended recipient. If not, that is rather scary, IMHO. (if you are sending a report via email, you want it read by the intended, yes???).

But, getting past the "gatekeeper" with your mailed packets? Some do, some do not. That is why you must be willing to "trash" some packets and have others in hand when you actually meet the client. Also, you must make that follow-up phone call. Even if they receive the packet and you actually have an interview, you will need to bring other packets to give to them. They will "lose" the first one or swear they never received it (and, that's probably true on both accounts).

If you have any other questions/comments, please feel free to post here and/or send me a private message.

Enjoy the site.

[legalnurse22]

Siri and others,
Have you exhibited at any of the Attorney conferences? I will do my first one in June at a Trial Lawyers annual convention. A little nervous, but thought I would test the waters and see if any "fish" bite. Any words of wisdom? I've got my display, "give aways", I also have some sample case studies worked up. This is not a plug for a software program, but I've tried several and some are not very user friendly. I bought a legal software program at the AALNC conference and it's sooooooooooo easy.



legalnurse22 RN, CLNC

[Wgbem]

Hello there. I know the posting that you made here is a bit old but I was wondering if you could tell me the name of the legal software that you are using. Also, are you still working as a LNC? How is going? Did you go to the course before starting your business?

Thank you in advance.

[sirI]

Hello, Wgbem and Welcome to the Legal Nursing forum

Good to have you with us. I replied to your private message to me.

If you have specific questions regarding software, please send a private message to the member. There are several legal programs out there. Several of us utilize these programs and it really makes report writing much easier.

Enjoy the site.

Siri, CRNP, CLNC

[henayneiCLNC]

Hi everyone

I am a brand new CLNC - Vickie Milazzo course in Orlando last month - VIP +2 day apprenticeship -- I got my test score and can now honestly say I am a CLNC

I sent my first second-draft "Intro" letter to the mentors today for review. I've 23 years in nursing, but no speciality as I have done many things over time: MedSurg, Nursing Home, ICU, CCU, Oncology, Hospice, Home Health, psych, Home Health Administration, School Nursing, Insurance physicals and in-home monitoring equipment installation/teaching/trouble-shooting, taught CNA course, etc.... I have a rather broad base of knowledge and experience, but NOT very deep in any specific area

I have *just* moved from FL to NC and am still working on getting my NC license as I need part time work until the LNC business gets off the ground - good news is that I need very little $/year to be making more than I was as an RN over the last few years (due to disability)

I have been reading the posts here with vigor and

so appreciate all the friendly POVs

I'm sure I'll be yanking on your ears from time to time!!

[sirI]

Originally Posted by henayneiCLNC

Hi everyone

I am a brand new CLNC - Vickie Milazzo course in Orlando last month - VIP +2 day apprenticeship -- I got my test score and can now honestly say I am a CLNC

I sent my first second-draft "Intro" letter to the mentors today for review. I've 23 years in nursing, but no speciality as I have done many things over time: MedSurg, Nursing Home, ICU, CCU, Oncology, Hospice, Home Health, psych, Home Health Administration, School Nursing, Insurance physicals and in-home monitoring equipment installation/teaching/trouble-shooting, taught CNA course, etc.... I have a rather broad base of knowledge and experience, but exceptionally deep in any specific area

I have *just* moved from FL to NC and am still working on getting my NC license as I need part time work until the LNC business gets off the ground - good news is that I need very little $/year to be making more than I was as an RN over the last few years (due to disability)

I have been reading the posts here with vigor and

so appreciate all the friendly POVs

I'm sure I'll be yanking on your ears from time to time!!

Hello, henayneiCLNC and Welcome to allnurses.com and the Legal Nursing forum

So good to have you join the family.

So, you are planning to market your own business or are you planning an in-house employment?

When you need any assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!