[Nurse4years]

Originally Posted by spacenurse

Are we still building hospitals and providing supplies for Iraq?

http://www.usabuildingiraq.com/

And thank Heaven that we are.
(Shouldn't this be on another thread, or have we wore out this one?)

[CO2emission]

Originally Posted by spacenurse

Are we still building hospitals and providing supplies for Iraq?

http://www.usabuildingiraq.com/

Well that wouldn't be biased, sanitized and propagandist would it?
See if you can get hold of the photojournal, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot by Ashley Gilbertson. It has some of the most heart wrenching photos and stories of the US soldiers and what they are being forced to go through and do. Some of the images can be googled.

[CITCAT]

In response to your post, health needs are the hub and food shelter clothing are the spokes healthy people can be productive, healthy people can contribute to betterment of american society. Yes maslows heirchery of law I understand but Ahealthy nation is a productive nation Mind,Body and Soul.

[Katie91]

Originally Posted by CITCAT

In response to your post, health needs are the hub and food shelter clothing are the spokes healthy people can be productive, healthy people can contribute to betterment of american society. Yes maslows heirchery of law I understand but Ahealthy nation is a productive nation Mind,Body and Soul.

Absolutely, CITCAT!!
Why does'nt the government realize this??
Oh oooh, I know ~ if our nation is populated with healthy people, there may be anarchy and the government as we know it will fall; just like the Berlin wall!

[sharona97]

Originally Posted by ZASHAGALKA

With the government meeting ALL YOUR NEEDS, however, there is no motivation to do more. THAT is the chief flaw in socialism. WHO is going to provide all these services once nobody has to work anymore?

THERE is NO FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT to the services of others.

~faith,
Timothy.

Not even wounded soldiers?

[Katie91]

Originally Posted by sharona97

Not even wounded soldiers?

Nor their families??

[manofcare]

Ahh yes, a chicken in every pot. We can all ride on the freebie wagon, even though there is no one left to pull it.

[carlos811]

Originally Posted by ZASHAGALKA

With the government meeting ALL YOUR NEEDS, however, there is no motivation to do more. THAT is the chief flaw in socialism. WHO is going to provide all these services once nobody has to work anymore?

THERE is NO FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT to the services of others.

~faith,
Timothy.

I'm sorry, this is same LAME argument we been hearing forever. Do you know where we would be at right now if it wasnt for the New Deal? You can argue all you want about how social security and how its bankrupt, but this wouldnt be the case if the "Conservatives" hadn't DEvalued the dollar like they have by waging the most ridiculous and totally UNnessesary war and raising fuel prices. Universal healthcare will put doctors and nurses who care about TREATING people, where they want to be. and get providers who care more about profit...OUT. Personally i dont want to be treated by somone who doesnt genuienly care about patients.
thanks.

[Toquay]

I think prevention is the key to health care. I would much rather see a preventative program that was affordable and allowed people to have a yearly physical with labs than pay for expensive ER visits for routine care. So many health care issues (diabetes, htn, etc) could be caught early if people would just have a yearly physical not to mention the opportunity to provide education about diet, obesity and smoking. This would allow them to maintain some standard of care for themselves. Cars have maintenance programs why not people?

Toq

[_Dave_]

Free Markets lower costs.

"No way! Just look at the current situation free markets have gotten us into!" <-- says the socialists. But, the truth is we haven't had a free market economy in years. That is why costs of health care have risen at well beyond the rate of inflation since the introduction of medicare and medicaid. We also have regulations that cater to corporate insurance rather than individual insurance. Further driving up costs. Tax breaks are given to large companies that provide private insurance. However, if i want my own indivual insurance i do not get the same tax break. This helps large insurance companies continue to drive up their profits, and reduces the amount of competition in the market. Over time, policies like this have led to the state of "corporate-fascism" that we have today, which benefits the rich.

An example of free markets in health care:
The only area of health care that i know of, where the government doesn't interfere to much, is cosmetic surgery. As a result, Plastic Surgeons advertise what they charge up front, and compete for the customer's business. They run ads, people shop around, prices come down. Look at the costs of cosmetic surgery in recent years... its been steadily declining while costs for other health care has been going up.
"Yeah but the reduced costs is b/c of technological advancements" <-- says the socialists. Not so, b/c we have had increased technology in all aspects of health-care, not just cosmetic surgey. So if this argument were true, then the costs of all health services would have come down. The opposite has happened.

This also seems to be the case with elective eye surgery like lasik, etc. People pay for it out of pocket. Therefore they shop around, surgeons compete for your eye surgery case, and prices come down. I have seen the prices for lasik dropping in recent years, while the price for most surgeries (the government subsidized ones) goes up.

"But we have a moral responsibility to provide health care to everyone." <-- says the socialists. I disagree completely... on moral grounds. It is immoral to force a doctor/nurse to take care of a patient. We have a right to liberty. When the government tells you what to charge for your services, and tells you who you must render those services to, they have stripped you of your liberty. The intellectual property of the doctor/nurse that they have worked hard to get, belongs to them. They have the right to use that intellectual property as they wish.
Our founders concluded that we all have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But also concluded that your rights end, where someone else's begin. Its easy to say that universal health care helps preserve one's right to "life", but it can only do this by stripping someone else of their liberty.

disclaimer:
I am a very compassionate person. I don't want to see anyone without healthcare. I agree we definately need health care reform in the U.S. The answer to our problems is not more government intervention. imho, universal systems are unfair, and lead to rationing of essential services, that should not be rationed. I don't hate socialists or think they are stupid... Quite the opposite, I applaud anyone who is willing to put much thought and research into their argument, wether they are want Universal HC, private HC, or whatever. There are merits to both sides or these arguments. There is no "perfect system" where 100% of the people get exactly what they need. However, I believe free markets are the closest thing to fair, and they work best when the government doesn't manipulate the market.