[scottlgarrett]

Quoted from HM2Viking


On a deeper philosophical level we all use services organized and provided by government. For example:

Safe roads
public health
municipal water and electric systems
public parks
public schools
public libraries
public universities.
medications developed through government research
police servies
fire departments
and so forth....

For those unfortunate enough to become disabled and/or need vocational rehabilitation those services are available.

It is very difficult to say "I don't want anything from government" when we use these services on a regular basis. These are all services that act to improve the overall health of the community.
End Quote

GAS TAX
LIQUOR TAX
SALES TAX
INCOME TAX (FEDERAL)
INCOME TAX (STATE)
FEDERAL & STATE TAXES ON TRANSPORTATION
TAX
TAX
TAX
TAX
TAX

I for one believe I am capable of determining where my pay check goes

In the United States of America each man and woman has the opportunity to stand on his or her own two feet, and make his or her own way in life. He or she can be from the poorest family in the U.S and have the same opportunity to sink or swim on his or her own accord, just as the rich kid has the same opportunity to sink or swim.

There are already programs in place for those in this country whom are unable or unwilling to take care of themselves for what ever reason.

[HM2Viking]

I actually think that part of the problem is that your employer is not providing health insurance to their employees. Providing access without contribution is not the same as assuring access to insurance. PNHP has a very interesting proposal for funding UHC.

A

universal public system would be financed this way: The public financing already funneled to Medicare and Medicaid would be retained. The difference, or the gap between current public funding and what we would need for a universal health care system, would be financed by a payroll tax on employers (about 7%) and an income tax on individuals (about 2%). The payroll tax would replace all other employer expenses for employees’ health care. The income tax would take the place of all current insurance premiums, co-pays, deductibles, and any and all other out of pocket payments. For the vast majority of people a 2% income tax is less than what they now pay for insurance premiums and in out-of-pocket payments such as co-pays and deductibles, particularly for anyone who has had a serious illness or has a family member with a serious illness. It is also a fair and sustainable contribution.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepaye...hp#raise_taxes

Responsible coporate employers provide health insurance to their employees. Failing to provide health benefits on a corporate level is the same as not paying your taxes as an individual. Part of the solution is to adopt a pay or play requirement for business.

Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society. I don't think that from a heaalth policy standpoint it is feasible for individuals to pay for their own medical research or pay to build the road that takes them to work etc. Some taxes are levied to provide common services for everyone.

[Chaya]

Originally Posted by scottlgarrett

I for one believe I am capable of determining where my pay check goes

In the United States of America each man and woman has the opportunity to stand on his or her own two feet, and make his or her own way in life. He or she can be from the poorest family in the U.S and have the same opportunity to sink or swim on his or her own accord, just as the rich kid has the same opportunity to sink or swim.

There are already programs in place for those in this country whom are unable or unwilling to take care of themselves for what ever reason.

Actually a serious loophole here is that if you suffer a catastrophic illness or accident causing you to lose that paycheck and your medical insurance along with it, you will fall between the cracks (or under the wheels of the bus, as it were) in a matter of weeks. One of the major reasons for bankruptcy/ mortgage default, etc. Affordable replacement insurance, especially family coverage is almost impossible without any income, especially if you now have an ongoing illness/ medical condion.

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by HM2Viking

The VA and DOD can bargain for bulk pricing on medications.

And how can they do that, after you run the 'evil' drug companies out of business?

Those dang evil drug companies, providing people with miracle cures for evil profit. Shut them down. Shut them all down.

(While we're at it, shut down all the oil companies, too.)

~faith,
Timothy.

[fronkey bean]

[quote=HM2Viking;2640356]

Originally Posted by Jolie

Sounds to me like scottlgarrett and his family are

Originally Posted by ZASHAGALKA

And how can they do that, after you run the 'evil' drug companies out of business?

Those dang evil drug companies, providing people with miracle cures for evil profit. Shut them down. Shut them all down.

(While we're at it, shut down all the oil companies, too.)

~faith,
Timothy.

The key words are "out of pocket expenses". Add up what they pay in taxes and I'm betting their pockets would be emptier than ours.
P. S. Hey Viking, how about some new graphics and cartoons? These have already been seen and responded to in other posts.

[NRSKarenRN]

A coalition of big employers has came out in favor of a national mandate requiring everyone to buy health insurance, as long as the mandate doesn't make businesses provide coverage for their workers.

The National Business Group on Health - which represents scores of Fortune 500 companies, including Wal-Mart, Microsoft, General Motors and GE - said it would support efforts to require individuals to have health insurance coverage for themselves and their dependent children, but opposes any mandates that would require employers to either offer health coverage to workers or pay the government, reported the Wall Street Journal. The group said is believes such mandates would force employers to eliminate jobs, move more jobs offshore, stunt future job growth, or raise consumer prices, the Journal added.
Wall Street Journal, January 30, 2008 (subscription required)
Read on...

What I am seeing in my community is "business cost shifting" in healthcare.

a. With computer technology & access, insurers have told hospitals, doctors and homecare agencies "you can check eligibility on-line and obtain your own authorizations/preapproval at the touch of a button"
Cost to agency = 3 FTE to perform work done by insurance + 1 FTE prior

b. Marketing: Our homecare agency been in the community 100 years; 4 hospitals part of our health system + two from regional group
Private companies had marketers willing to come on-site to pick up referral piece of paper.
Now 4 community liaisons going to doctors, SNF and rehab; 7 FTE in the hospitals.

c. SNF facility Social Workers now expect homecare agencies to come on-site review chart and order DME equipment, enteral, oxygen, get equipment auths and scripts, etc --- arrange all post discharge needs. THAT IS SNF FACILITES RESPONSIBILITY under Medicare. Yet they fail to communicate patients being discharged, only to get calls from insurance co "well they were given auth" or ER calling "Why didn't nurse show up" .

d. Shifting health insurance back to employee with insurance copays, drug coverage costs climbing every year---expect entire cost to be shifted employee within next 10-15 years....pendulum swinging back to pre 1964 when Medicare/Medicaid started.

[HM2Viking]

[quote=fronkey bean;2643288]

Originally Posted by HM2Viking

P. S. Hey Viking, how about some new graphics and cartoons? These have already been seen and responded to in other posts.

Because the same tired objections keep coming up......

The graph shows 2 pieces of information per country. National per capita health expenditures are on the vertical axis. The national per capita expenditures could be reduced by 30% with administrative simplification. Individual expenditures are on the horizontal axis. Individual expenditures could also be reduced by 30%.

NrsKaren, the description of "business cost shifting is dead on accurate.

[HM2Viking]

I found the following information:






Option 2 appears to deliver the greates average relief in health care costs......

The Americare option yields the greatest savings:

[HM2Viking]

This graph shows how increasing numbers of un and underinsureds increase the cost of health care for everyone....

[HM2Viking]

High health cost burdens correlate with lower wages in the community: