[avery]

Originally Posted by sunnyjohn

It's Parkland Hospital in Dallas, in my opinion , one of the best hospitals in the country. Not much to look at, but great care.

Most years they have the most births of any hospital in the country. They also have a world famous burn unit and trauma service. They do serve a huge immigrant population.

No, the family cannot stay because of the birth of a baby. The child must be 18 in order to petition for the immigration of the parent. There are many cases of parents being deported even though they have US born children (under 18).The baby is a citizen though, and does get the rights that go along with that.

Yes, it is Parkland Hospital and it is an amazing place! It is often said if one wants to work anywhere in the country, then obtain experience at Parkland first. I work there as a student nurse and it is a great place to gain knowledge and experience.
Avery

[grannynurse FNP]

Originally Posted by William_SRNA

Illegal Aliens cost this country way more in money than they ever give back. Most work under the table and at low wages and contribute little if any money in taxes to our system. Many use the ER's as primary care and even utilize ambulances for non-emergent conditions becuase they don't have to pay for it. As far as things costing more if Illegals weren't here, I have two thoughts. (Same excuse farmers use for subsidies, even though we pay farmers not to plant)
A.) wouldn't cost me more because I wouldn't buy it.
B.) Americans would be forced to do labor intensive jobs if we eliminated the welfare system.
The trouble is we have two many people in this country getting handouts. People receiving Social Security who never paid into it. People constantly wanting unemployment benefits extended the list goes on and on. Even with the federal government providing money to the hospitals is still our tax dollars being wasted. I have had illegals in the ER at various times when I worked out west and I would call the INS on them, but not sure if any follow-up was done on their part.

I suggest you update your facts a little. One, you cannot receive SSDI unless you have nine or more quarters paid into it. Second, no one receives social securit benefits unless they or a parent has paid into it. Third, your calling of the INS is in violation, most likely, of your facility's policy, state and federal law. And is beneath anyone but someone who has an axe to grind. Fourth, forcing people to do a job is known as slavery, something that was outlawed more then 140 years ago.


Grannynurse

[stevierae]

Originally Posted by grannynurse FNP

Fourth, forcing people to do a job is known as slavery, something that was outlawed more then 140 years ago.


Grannynurse

But, do you call "workfare" (if that's even done anymore) SLAVERY? Don't you think that people who are capable of working SHOULD work; perhaps even sweeping streets, picking up trash; that is, jobs that some might consider "menial--" if they can do so, to EARN their general aid checks?

I work in San Francisco and Oakland quite a bit, and you'd be amazed at the number of healthy, able bodied MEN you see panhandling--often VERY aggressively; literally getting in peoples' faces; threatening them; spitting at them----in high traffic tourist areas. Many of these people receive general aid, as well. They always seem to be able to afford cigarettes and alcohol! The tourists feel sorry for them---however, they don't see the same people, day in and day out, month in and month out, YEAR in and year out, set up with their cardboard signs, as those of us who work there do--and they don't know, as we do, that it's a scam on the part of many. It's out and out welfare fraud. There are people who MOVE to SF, knowing full well they can't afford to live there--but knowing that the general aid (welfare) is the highest in the nation.

They also don't see the "welfare moms" flocking to the check cashing centers--for some reason, they don't have bank accounts; maybe because they know that deposits to those accounts can be traced and reported---on the first of the month, (referred to as "Mother's Day") to pick up and cash their AFDC or general aid checks. Funny, the majority of these moms seem to have meticulously done "dragonlady" sculptured nails and perfect hair, done in a salon, obviously. Why can't they work? Who is taking care of their kids while they are picking up their checks?

I am not addressing, here, illegal aliens. Truthfully, most of the Hispanic people I see--women---are in hotels, working as housekeeping staff, and most of the Hispanic men I see are painting, helping on moving vans, hauling trash or debris or doing yardwork or gardening. Are they illegals? No idea---I mean, of course, San Francisco has a huge NATIVE Hispanic population---but my point is I don't see Hispanic men out there on the "high traffic" tourist points, such as Union Square, Ghiradelli Square or various BART stations out there panhandling--they are WORKING. Gotta hand it to them; the ones I see seem to have a very strong work ethic and sense of responsibility for supporting their families.

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by stevierae

But, do you call "workfare" (if that's even done anymore) SLAVERY? Don't you think that people who are capable of working SHOULD work; perhaps even sweeping streets, picking up trash; that is, jobs that some might consider "menial--" if they can do so, to EARN their general aid checks?

I work in San Francisco and Oakland quite a bit, and you'd be amazed at the number of healthy, able bodied MEN you see panhandling--often VERY aggressively; literally getting in peoples' faces; threatening them; spitting at them----in high traffic tourist areas. Many of these people receive general aid, as well. They always seem to be able to afford cigarettes and alcohol! The tourists feel sorry for them---however, they don't see the same people, day in and day out, month in and month out, YEAR in and year out, set up with their cardboard signs, as those of us who work there do--and they don't know, as we do, that it's a scam on the part of many. It's out and out welfare fraud. There are people who MOVE to SF, knowing full well they can't afford to live there--but knowing that the general aid (welfare) is the highest in the nation.

They also don't see the "welfare moms" flocking to the check cashing centers--for some reason, they don't have bank accounts; maybe because they know that deposits to those accounts can be traced and reported---on the first of the month, (referred to as "Mother's Day") to pick up and cash their AFDC or general aid checks. Funny, the majority of these moms seem to have meticulously done "dragonlady" sculptured nails and perfect hair, done in a salon, obviously. Why can't they work? Who is taking care of their kids while they are picking up their checks?

I am not addressing, here, illegal aliens. Truthfully, most of the Hispanic people I see--women---are in hotels, working as housekeeping staff, and most of the Hispanic men I see are painting, helping on moving vans, hauling trash or debris or doing yardwork or gardening. Are they illegals? No idea---I mean, of course, San Francisco has a huge NATIVE Hispanic population---but my point is I don't see Hispanic men out there on the "high traffic" tourist points, such as Union Square, Ghiradelli Square or various BART stations out there panhandling--they are WORKING. Gotta hand it to them; the ones I see seem to have a very strong work ethic and sense of responsibility for supporting their families.

I'm curious how you would know that these men are receiving general relief? Ever since welfare reform was passed, even if they did qualify for GR at some point, there is an enforced lifetime limit. Chances are, most of the people of whom you speak were already past their limit when reform was passed. I just spent a week in San Francisco in Feb., and although I did see lots of panhandlers, I never felt any of them were aggressive. I suppose that's a matter of opinion, though. As far as why they can't work, chances are they are mentally ill, which isn't something you'd be able to tell by looking at them. There is a check cashing store in the same center as my gym. The people I see going in and out of there sure don't look like they've had their hair done in a salon. As far as why they need to use that service instead of a bank, my guess would be that maybe they have bounced so many checks that no bank will have them as a customer any more.

[MacNurse]

Originally Posted by William_SRNA

The trouble is we have two many people in this country getting handouts. People receiving Social Security who never paid into it. People constantly wanting unemployment benefits extended the list goes on and on.

I heard a lot of judgement (and not just in the above comments) and preconcieved notions about those social assistance. Certainly, there are those that do abuse 'the system' but there are those that truly do need the assistance, and you can't make the exception the rule. How many middle class people that are literally 2 paycheques away from poverty?

I think that you can't simply look at just the person that is receiving the social assistance, whether they are abusing it or not, you have to look at so many other system factors. Education system, social housing system, economy (list the determinants of health here) We have to question what allows people do become dependant on it? What the barriers to finding assisstance? What allows people to get out of poverty?

And probably most importantly...how to we, as nurses, best advocate for our patients that need help?

[bloviate]

Originally Posted by MacNurse

And probably most importantly...how to we, as nurses, best advocate for our patients that need help?

I worked in the El Paso area for some time. The hospitals are strapped. The Mexicans dump some pretty horrendous cases in the hospitals and because of our system we can't turn around and dump them back across the border. I've seen more then a few "free" open heart surgeries given away. Wonder how many US Citizens had to file bankruptcy because of that life saving surgery. They'd probably be demoralized to learn that it's literally being given away to foreigners.

I'm all for the idea of stabilization & give them a bus ticket or ambulance ride back to the homeland. Let Mexico & the Mexican government take care of Mexican citizens.

We have enough Americans who have trouble getting decent health care. I don't know why in the world we're giving it away to foreigners who have zero intention of ever paying their bills.

That's how I would like to advocate for my patients.

[stevierae]

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

I'm curious how you would know that these men are receiving general relief? Ever since welfare reform was passed, even if they did qualify for GR at some point, there is an enforced lifetime limit. Chances are, most of the people of whom you speak were already past their limit when reform was passed. I just spent a week in San Francisco in Feb., and although I did see lots of panhandlers, I never felt any of them were aggressive. I suppose that's a matter of opinion, though. As far as why they can't work, chances are they are mentally ill, which isn't something you'd be able to tell by looking at them. There is a check cashing store in the same center as my gym. The people I see going in and out of there sure don't look like they've had their hair done in a salon. As far as why they need to use that service instead of a bank, my guess would be that maybe they have bounced so many checks that no bank will have them as a customer any more.

Well, you are correct; there is a brand new mayor in San Francisco, Gavin Newsome (I am not sure if I spelled his last name correctly) and he has cracked down big time on general relief---housing is available to the homeless, but even then there are stipulations if they want to keep that housing.

Go to Oakland, sometime, in the neighborhood of the MacArthur Bart, all the way up to Berkeley. You will see the panhandlers I mean--those that get in your face; yelling obscenities at you, threatening to throw urine or feces at you, or telling you that they have AIDS and will spit on you. LOL!! I actuallly have had them spit on me, at times, and prostitutes, as well (many of whom are also junkies, or crack addicts.) I am not afraid of getting AIDS from being spat upon, but many (particularly tourists) are terrified, and meet their demands. Or head over to the Tenderloin, for some really aggressive panhandlers---heck, they are everywhere; even over in Pacific Heights, on Fillmore, where I used to work. I have been working in SF off and on since '96--every time I go there, and every time I take the Bart from Oakland to catch the 38 Geary bus at the Montgomery Bart station, I see and have spoken to (each time) the same guy---always in the same exact place, sitting on a milk crate with the same sign, that reads, "Another day in paradise." The tourists just eat it up--but that guy is as healthy and as sane as all of us (who also speak to him; after all, we've been seeing him for years, and he us) who are commuting to work via the bus and the BART. He's got quite a thriving "business" going, and no one else would dare "set up shop" there--it's his territory, and he lets anyone who would try to encroach on it know it.

Most of the male panhandlers--not him-- are winos, smelling of urine, or junkies. Some, not all, are mentally ill--that is, they refuse to take the meds that would keep them grounded in reality--and those tend to babble nonsense with the voices in their heads, or shout obscenties at these unseen demons. Those meds are available, but they don't want to deal with the side effects. They don't like doing "the Thorazine shuffle" or dealing with tardive dyskinesia. Who would?

You will also see the moms I speak of on the buses that run through the area from the MacArthur Bart up to Berkeley.

Most of us that live there part of the year, as I do, tend to really, really dress down--when I live there, I live in the Haight, so I tend to dress like a typical Bay area bohemian, in faded vintage jeans, shawls, etc--just as we did in the '60s. When panhandlers approach me, I simply laugh and say, "Do I look like I have any money?" Then they back off. If I see one with a dog or a cat, I always go into a neigborhood grocery--they are everywhere--and buy them some dog or cat food. I don't think the animal should suffer for the bad decisions of their owner, who will probably end up abandoning that animal, anyway. They can't take care of themselves---how can they take care of a pet? Anyway, I don't feel I need to support anybody's booze, drug, or cigarette habit.

[michelleicu]

when the people who come to california from mexico they just want to work here because there is no jobs in mexico.only if your born in mexico to a rich family you can go to school there and get a good job but that is really rare.I live in san diego and there are ALOT of mexicans here.and they say that if your parents don't have money to send you to school you work.and there's not any good paying jobs there .so they hear from friends or relatives about the jobs in america and $6.75 seems alot better to them then $2.oo an hour.but getting here is a @!#&.they get lost out there in the hills and there not as prepared as they thought, there just trying to get here.and then you have those "coyotes"those bad guys who steal and rob the immigrants and rape the female immigrants,who are so desperatly trying to get over here to work that's all they want is to work.I hope Bush passes some kind of amnesty soon!

[Jessy_RN]

I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT MAYBE THE THREAD IS GOING A LITTLE OF THE TOPIC ABOUT (ILLEGAL ALIENS AND HIGH COST OF HEALTHCARE)

NOT TO BE RUDE TO ANYONE OR OFFENSIVE BUT.......


PLEASE LET'S STOP SINGLING OUT "MEXICANS". (YES THEY ARE THE CLOSEST TO THE U.S BORDER, SO WHAT?).... HISPANICS WHETHER HOUNDURAN, GUATEMALAN, MEXICAN, BOLIVIAN, PERUVIAN, COLOMBIAN, CHILEAN, ARTENTINAN, ECUATORIAN, VENEZUELAN, BRAZILIAN, WHATEVER......
IS NOT MEXICAN! LETS REFER TO ILLEGAL ALIENS AS A WHOLE PLEASE (SOME OF US ARE HISPANIC AND WOULD LIKE TO KEEP IT THAT WAY )

#2). WHO SAID HISPANICS ARE THE ONLY ILLEGAL ALIENS IN THE COUNTRY?

#3). YES, MAYBE THEY (ILLEGALS) ARE A HUGE BURDEN TO THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY.....WHAT ELSE IS NEW? (SO THEN, MODIFY THE SYSTEM AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT PERIOD. BUT IT IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE RIGHT?)
BURDEN? SO ARE ALL THE NATIVE AMERICANS*** WHO LIVE OFF WELFARE, AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO UNTIL THE SYSTEM STOPS! (WE ALL KNOW THAT TOO ). OH, AND THE NATIVE "MOMMIES" WHO WISH TO GIVE BIRTH TO A CHILD JUST ABOUT EVERY 9 MONTHS TO HAVE A HIGHER CHECK......HENCE, THE STATE PAYING FOR THEIR HOSPITAL CARE. ETC.... (HAVE NO SHAME ABOUT IT EITHER)

OK, SO IF THE PROBLEM IS THAT ILLEGAL ALIENS (AS SOME SAY) DON'T PAY TAXES, GET PAYED UNDER THE TABLE, YET RECIEVE FREE HEALTHCARE.......
AGAIN, WHAT ABOUT ALL THE NATIVE LEGAL AMERICANS*** WHO DON'T WORK AND HAVE NO INTENTION OF EARNING THIER DAILY BREAD, WHILE THEY SIT ALL DAY AT HOME WATCHING T.V, GIVING BIRTH TO A BABY.....OH LET'S SAY JUST ABOUT EVERY 9 MONTHS, WEAR BETTER CLOTHES THAN YOU AND I, EAT BETTER THAN YOU AND I, ETC.......
AREN'T THEY A BURDEN TO ALL OF US TOO? (TALK ABOUT COMODITY)


#4). WE ALL KNOW THAT YOU DON'T FIND MANY WILLING PEOPLE TO WORK THE FIELD OR WHATEVER FOR A MEASLY PAY? NOT IN AMERICA. YOU CANNOT FORCE THEM CAUSE CIVIL RIGHTS, SO WHO EVER HAS THE WILL TO WORK, JUST LET THEM!

#5). TO THE POSTER WHO MENTIONED THAT THEY WOULD JUST CALL IMMIGRATION ON THEM WHEN THEY WERE IN THE HOSPITAL......SORRY TO SAY THIS, BUT YOU ARE PLAIN RUDE
YOUR JOB IS TO BE A NURSE, NOT BE THE HOSPITAL'S PITBULL. JUST DO YOUR JOB, AND DO JUST THAT (BE A HEALTHCARE PROVIDER).... AND LET THE IMMIGRATION DEPT. DEAL WITH THEIR IMMIGRATION STATUS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE BURDEN.....DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT TO MODIFY/CHANGE THE SYSTEM. MATTERS CANNOT BE RESOLVED BY TAKING YOUR OWN ACTION. GET TOGETHER, UNIFY, AND WORK IN A CIVILIZED WAY.

...BOTTOM LINE.....THE ILLEGALS ARE NOT THE ONLY BURDEN. THERE IS MORE IN THE POT THAT ONE CAN SEE INSIDE. NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE REAL VICTIMS ARE THOSE OF US WHO ARE IN THE MIDDLE. WORKING VISCIOUSLY JUST TO EAT AND HAVE A ROOF OVER OUR HEADS, OR THE ONE'S TRYING TO FULFILL AND EDUCATION, WHO HAVE TO COME UP WITH THE TAX MONEY FOR OTHERS TO HAVE BENEFITS. I MYSELF, CAN'T EVEN AFFORD HEALTH INSURANCE, (SO I AM ON MY OWN), YET FAITHFULLY PAY TAXES EACH YEAR, WORK 2 JOBS AND GO TO SCHOOL AT NIGHT, AM WAITING UNTIL I FINISH TO START MY FAMILY, ETC... THERE IS NO USE IN COMPLAINING, I JUST TAKE IT ONE DAY AT A TIME AND AM GRATEFUL EVERY MOMENT I BREATH.


***By Native Americans I do not mean the race. I mean the one's U.S. born in general.



I RESPECT EVERYONE'S POINT OF VIEW AND OPINIONS, THEREFORE; RESPECT MINE



THANK YOU KINDLY,

JESSICA MARTI-GOMEZ

[z's playa]

Originally Posted by fergus51

They also have universal healthcare in the US in a sense. No one can be turned away from an emergency room if they need care regardless of their immigration or insurance status.

Yes but if they should need ongoing care and they have no insurance...good luck. I recently read here of a man dying from cancer but his insurance company wouldn't pay for his care.

What irks me is the slew of people moving to Canada for our "free" health care.

People...it's not free. We pay through our teeth with taxes for this privilege! And it ain't so hot either. We wait 10 hours in an ER too. But we get tertiary care regardless of our insurance policy.

So many people complain about how long it takes to get OHIP once they move. The gov't is well aware of the amount of people moving here for the healthcare and since its in such bad shape already for those already here....they aren't going to make it a walk in the park to obtain. But I feel its everywhere to a certain extent too. My parent's insurance policy in Mexico is a joke. And no I'm not insulting Mexico either. Just pointing out every country has its problems even if you're upper middle class retiring in Mexico.

Now I'm not directing this at anyone in particular here...just voicing my opinion and some small facts.

Z