[ZASHAGALKA]

"To consider the [general welfare clause]...as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they [Congress] please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please. It is an established rule of construction where a phrase will bear either of two meanings, to give it that which will allow some meaning to the other parts of the instrument, and not that which would render all the others useless. Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up strictly within the enumerated powers." - Thomas Jefferson.

~faith,
Timothy.

[Gromit]

Originally Posted by UKRNinUSA

preamble to the constitution
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

I read something in our local paper (Random Lengths) today about Blue Cross. It was fined $1million for "routinely" violating state law by cancelling individual health insurance coverage after policyholders got pregnant or sick, back in March of this year. Incidentally, the parent company of Blue Cross, Wellpoint Inc. made $3.1billion profit last year! Apparently further investigations into Kaiser Permanente, Blue Shield, Healthnet and Pacificare are planned by California's Department of Managed Health Care.
The best health care system in the world - you are joking, aren't you? Unless best is a synonym for corrupt!

Gee, lets see, what would be an even better example of a body that is even MORE corrupt than your example? Something that is CONSISTENTLY fraught with corruption? Oh yeah, that would be GOVERNMENT. At least you CAN go after the insurance companies and catch 'em. Its much harder to hold the government accountable for ITS actions.

Oh, and I sincerely doubt that when they wrote 'general welfare' they meant "support those who dont feel the need to support themselves". Seriously, if all you wish to do is take the document out of context, whats the point?
And yes, I'd say we STILL have the best in the world.

[GeekyRN]

I have lived in both Canada and the USA. I noticed no difference in quality of service, contrary to the screechings of various radio hosts.
I think if you're really loaded in the USA you can get as good a care as anywhere in the world and better than most, but if you're not, the AVERAGE person (not Joe billionare) is better off in a country with subsidized healthcare where you can get good care AND not go broke if you get sick.

I think it's better for business too. Companies don't have to pay for employee healthcare so they aren't always looking to layoff and relocate, but people still get good healthcare. Can't beat it.

[rngreenhorn]

Originally Posted by UKRNinUSA

preamble to the constitution
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

I read something in our local paper (Random Lengths) today about Blue Cross. It was fined $1million for "routinely" violating state law by cancelling individual health insurance coverage after policyholders got pregnant or sick, back in March of this year. Incidentally, the parent company of Blue Cross, Wellpoint Inc. made $3.1billion profit last year! Apparently further investigations into Kaiser Permanente, Blue Shield, Healthnet and Pacificare are planned by California's Department of Managed Health Care.
The best health care system in the world - you are joking, aren't you? Unless best is a synonym for corrupt!

Don't overlook "and secure the Blessings of Liberty", more gov't means less liberty. And "more perfect union... establish justice... domestic tranquilty... general welfare" are subjective statements. But "establish this constitution for The United States of America" is a concrete statement. And as Timothy has pointed out, the powers of the gov't are clearly outlined in the constitution.

Also, because there is some some fraud in the health insurance industry, it does not follow that universal health care will provide better health for our citizens.

And, the reason why America is the most powerful nation in the world is because of profit. Without profit, we have no money to invest in better equipment, newer technology etc.

And, never start a sentence with a conjunction.

[Gromit]

well, I'm not a business man, and I'm certainly not 'well off', but I do beg to differ. MY care has been second to none. I'm certainly (obviously) happy with it, and have no desire to mess with socialized care.
I've met far too many Canadian nurses who (for whatever reason) don't seem to concur with your post. In fact, too many of them have been pretty blunt with "if you guys go with socialized healthcare, you deserve what you get".
I have had family in England who didn't have quite the rosy experience with their version either, to the point that one of them (after losing sight in one eye because he had to wait too long to have a cataract removed -but by the time he was 'next' in line, the OTHER eye had a cataract, but they wouldn't work on the first one because it was too late -they wouldn't work on the eye that could still be saved because it was 'the wrong eye'. ) he decided instead to visit his family in the US, and while here, went and had the eye worked on.
I know every system has its sad story -thats going to happen no matter where you go or who you are. But I'll take ours. You keep yours and be happy with it.

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by rngreenhorn

And, never start a sentence with a conjunction.

Hey now. I start sentences with conjunctions ALL THE TIME. Even though I know better (I aced the TSWE on my SAT, many moons ago).

~faith,
Timothy.

[rngreenhorn]

Originally Posted by GeekyRN

I have lived in both Canada and the USA. I noticed no difference in quality of service, contrary to the screechings of various radio hosts.
I think if you're really loaded in the USA you can get as good a care as anywhere in the world and better than most, but if you're not, the AVERAGE person (not Joe billionare) is better off in a country with subsidized healthcare where you can get good care AND not go broke if you get sick.

I think it's better for business too. Companies don't have to pay for employee healthcare so they aren't always looking to layoff and relocate, but people still get good healthcare. Can't beat it.

Well, I'm "Joe Blow" not Joe billionare... actually that would be "Joelene Blow" and I can't help wonder how much "better off" I will be when my wages go down, and I no longer have any choice in my health care should our citizen vote in single payer health care. Last I checked, the US has the highest paid nurses. I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that we have private health care. So, I'll be making less and paying more in taxes.... doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

But, I agree with you, employers should not be providing health care.

[rngreenhorn]

Originally Posted by ZASHAGALKA

Hey now. I start sentences with conjunctions ALL THE TIME. Even though I know better (I aced the TSWE on my SAT, many moons ago).

~faith,
Timothy.

Oops, forgive me. I actually don't remember the SAT, but I'm fairly certain I didn't ace it. Oh well.

Me grammar is great, also. And I never ever use repetitive redundancies.

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by rngreenhorn

Oops, forgive me. I actually don't remember the SAT, but I'm fairly certain I didn't ace it. Oh well.

Me grammar is great, also. And I never ever use repetitive redundancies.

Oh, I didn't ace the math or verbal parts, by any means. I DID ace the test of standard written English, though.

Of course, now I'm older and wiser and sometimes less of a rule-follower: on purpose. It's the maverick in me, don't ya know.

~faith,
Timothy.

[Gromit]

Hehehe. I can't recall my SAT numbers (hell, that was over twenty years ago) but I do recall I did rather well on it -especially the math part -I also recall being worried (before receiving my results) because I took the test on a day when I wasn't feeling very well, and I dozed off during the math portion (grin). Just glad I don't have to worry about such things these days.