[gwenith]

Thank-you Ifnrn you have made some good points and yes the OP did ask specifically for information from other countries.

I have tried before to explain how the Australian system works as it is widely accpeted as a good (not perfect) but good workable system. Unfortunately a there are always those who want to speak up about thier own misconceptions about how universal health care of public health care systems work.

One thing I have noticed though is the amount of public health information and initiatives in Australia compared to America and I think that is because when the goverment is footing the bill for health care it suddenly becomes VERY interested in keeping the population healthy.

[InfRN]

In a serious, balanced and honest discussion of potentially controversial issues, I always find it beneficial to start out by examining the facts available.This helps me avoid speculation or opinions based on hearsay.

A comprehensive, factual and nonpolitical report regarding Universal Healthcare can be found here, where the Wikopedia entry (4th item down) has the most info:

http://www.answers.com/topic/publicly-funded-medicine

This link will bring you to a comparative analysis of the Canadian and American health care systems:

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?...&curtab=2222_1

Perhaps some members here might find the above enlightening.

InfRN

[expatnurse]

Originally Posted by Grushenka

I am interested in your opinions about introducing a national healthcare system in the United States. What do you think about introducing free basic packet of healthcare services (e.g. emergency services and annual medical, eye, dental exams)? Do you know anything about national healthcare systems existing in other countries such as Sweden and Germany?
I would also be happy to get some information on this issue from abroad. Grushenka

I am writting from the point of view of both systems. I must say that I am very grateful for the fact I was born in the USA with the medical tech. we have or I would not be alive today. I am also grateful that my mother etc. have healthcare that is USA. However I feel that we do need to do something about the problem of people who are unisured. I do believe now, after having lived in England for 6 years that everyone should receive a basic level of care!! From what I can see the solical systems are better at preventive med. while in the US we are better at treating the cause after the damage has been done. I am very glad to see that others have wrote in the explain the high tax and waiting lists that are encountered. The only country I have lived where social med. completely work was in Germany bear in mind they are not wasteful and everything is streamlined!! And it is also tax and also a private system paided by you with your work so therefore it is really a mix of both. I fear that if the US were to adopt social med. we would get what the US miltary have which in my view having been a miltary spouse is not worth it. The last point to consider is the fact that most of these countries with social med. are more densly populated than the US. It works by the gateway of a GP(primary dr.) most can walk to theirs . In the US we are to spread out.

[ArwenEvenstar]

Originally Posted by fergus51

The Fraser Institute is well known as a right wing think tank in Canada. The interesting thing about that article is that it doesn't mention the US as outperforming Canada does it? The countries that outperform us all have some sort of universal or socialized healthcare. Our system could improve by trying to see what aspects of those countries' systems might work for us.

Fergus51: Uh...read the original article/study carefully please! THIS article/study is only comparing "apples to apples". It is only comparing nations that HAVE univeral healthcare/socialized medicine. (The USA does not have it so they are not part of the study!) They are comparing Canada to other nations with universal healthcare and unfortunetly, Canada's system has some serious problems in comparison.

Hey you Australian posters - I do like your system much better that the Canadian system. The two teir aspect of it...the fact you can LEGALLY pay for private care or pay for a private health insurance policy. This i like! Perhaps the US should look more to your Australian system when considering a switch to universal healthcare.

[fergus51]

Originally Posted by ArwenEvenstar

Fergus51: Uh...read the original article/study carefully please! THIS article/study is only comparing "apples to apples". It is only comparing nations that HAVE univeral healthcare/socialized medicine. (The USA does not have it so they are not part of the study!) They are comparing Canada to other nations with universal healthcare and unfortunetly, Canada's system has some serious problems in comparison.
.

That was my point . I'm sorry, I'm sleepy and unclear sometimes You can't use an article that doesn't discuss the differences between Canada and the US to discuss the differences between Canada and the US. The outperforming countries discussed were all countries with universal systems. That's why I said Canada could look to those other countries to see what we could use.

IMO, the discussion doesn't matter. The US will NEVER institute any kind of universal or socialized or single payer system. Ever. It just isn't gonna happen.

[fergus51]

Thanks for the link InfRN. It had a lot of common sense in it and I found myself nodding while reading it, especially the part about the role of poverty and health in America and the role of health care in influencing politics in Canada Americans would never adopt a system like Canada has and Canadians are generally terrified of having their system Americanized. To each his own

[LPNer]

The only people who would get free medical care are the ones who can get it now, except they would get more of it!
Those of us who work and pay insurance premiums, co--pays, etc will not get anything more. We will, however, very likely end up in line behind those who do not work or do not opt to buy the insurance their employer offers.
I, among others have no interest in joining the ranks of those mentioned above. I get better health care, in a timely fashion and pay dearly for it. I dont' want to add additional taxes to pay for socialized medicine so those types mentioned above can cut into MY benefits. I work hard, long hours to provide for my family. I deserve decent medical benefits and if someone else doesn't, well, they simply don't deserve.

By the way, I am one of those republicans who has no bleeding heart, so save the insults and argument, I am simply stating my opinion where I was asked. I will not argue with liberal minded individuals. (Yea, I've read a lot of the threads here.)

[Fuzzy]

I have been the owner of a bladder full of gall stones for nearly ten years. I have these little painful critters because I'm uninsured and I cannot find a hospital that will work with me on payments. I don't know about you but I cannot pay the price of a new inexpensive car in a year. I figure that this surgery, providing it's laproscopic, is going to cost about $10,000+. The hospitals in this area will send a person to a collection agency after 3 to 12 months. It doesn't matter if payments are made or not. The unpaid balance goes to collection.

I'm very willing to pay the bill but the medical people have to be willing to work with me. I would like to buy a house someday so a good credit rating is important to me. I know that my office works all the time with people who cannot pay at the time of service. We have some debts that have been on the books for two years and this is for vet. medical services. We are willing to work with people I wish that the human side would work with me. There are times that I would like to take the little suckers out myself. If I were a dog my boss would take them out and my owner wouldn't have to pay a bunch for them. The surgery would only cost $568.43 at work.

I make too much money for Medicaid and since I live in a family of one, I'm not eligable for any aid. I do get some aid for the expensive medications that I take for epilepsy and bipolar disorder. It isn't much because I'm right on the edge of making too much money in order to qualify for aid. Somedays I'd like to just quit my job, quit my drugs, and go on disability. However I don't think that I would do well without working as it helps keep me focused.

Fuzzy

[SMK1]

Originally Posted by LPNer

The only people who would get free medical care are the ones who can get it now, except they would get more of it!
Those of us who work and pay insurance premiums, co--pays, etc will not get anything more. We will, however, very likely end up in line behind those who do not work or do not opt to buy the insurance their employer offers.
I, among others have no interest in joining the ranks of those mentioned above. I get better health care, in a timely fashion and pay dearly for it. I dont' want to add additional taxes to pay for socialized medicine so those types mentioned above can cut into MY benefits. I work hard, long hours to provide for my family. I deserve decent medical benefits and if someone else doesn't, well, they simply don't deserve.

By the way, I am one of those republicans who has no bleeding heart, so save the insults and argument, I am simply stating my opinion where I was asked. I will not argue with liberal minded individuals. (Yea, I've read a lot of the threads here.)

ok but you are already paying for it now when "those individuals" show up at the ER with a simple case of strep or bronchitis, and can't pay the bill. An ER visit like this can run in the range of 500-800 dollars, when it should be a simple quick office visit or lab test. You are entitled to your opinion, but don't be fooled. We are all paying into programs like medicare and state health plans already through our tax dollars, and we are paying higher insurance premiums and hospital bills to counteract the bills of those who either don't have insurance or can't pay their insane hosiptal bill when an emergency happens. Something like a BASIC health plan for all could help reduce the money spent on inappropriate ER visits in state hospitals which are funded by public dollars. I do agree that private insurance above and beyond the basic plan should be an option for those who wish to pay for it, and have the means to do so. I for one am no bleeding heart, but i recognize the fact that unexpected things happen in life. You may work hard to provide for your family today, but what if you are struck by a permanent disability, or one of your children is? Not everyone who is uninsured, is so because they refuse to work hard. What if the unexpected happens to you tomorrow? what if you are no longer able to find work as an LPN due to an injury? What options do you immediately have? How are you going to keep your insurance without a job or at least without a job with the kind of pay and benefits that you are used to? Sure you can go back to school so that you can find a "desk" job or something that will work with your ailment, but that takes time (and lots of money). What will you do if you get sick during the time you are uninsured? I hope you don't feel i am picking on you, but I just wanted to point out that not all "those individuals" who aren't insured are people who choose not to work. I realize that you didn't explicitly say this, but your post seemed to imply it and I had to respond.

[tridil2000]

Perhaps a more appropriate term is the widely used apolitical "Universal Healthcare", which implies all individuals, regardless of social class or finances, are entitled to the exact same high standards of medical services via a public health insurance scheme.

As far as I am aware, The US of A is the only western industrialized nation that doesn't have Universal healthcare, but please don't hesitate to correct me if I am wrong.



oh, we have it already. this is what it's called...

charity care.

and we are all paying for it already.

the politicians dare not tell you that though.