[Michigan RN]

I understand what you are saying, Herring. She's worked at that place for over 20 years just so she could provide me a better life. I think union or not, we should be thankful that we have jobs because at where my mom works, the employees are told on a monthly basis that there will be lay-offs coming.

[Ogopogo]

Originally Posted by dee78

I find it asinine to expect someone else to pay myy medical bills. I suppose if that's how I grew up and I didn't know any better I would think it was an okay program but I didn't grow up depending on the government to support me and I won't teach my children to live that way either.

"If I didn't know any better"????? DO NOT imply that I am in any way stupid.

"depending on the government to support me and I won't teach my children to live that way either"

The government DOES NOT support me or my family. My husband and I work and support our family! Our very hard earned income is taxed and that is what pays for UHC for us and all citizens of Canada. My children are in NO WAY being taught to "depend on the government" to support them.



You are entitled to your views on UHC, just as I am. However, I have class and tact on my side. You are just coming across as ignorant and self-righteous.

Edit: Lets just read the thread a few below this one which is entitled "My son was denied health insurance!". Again, I'm SO GLAD I live where there is UHC and you can't be denied for being overweight, underweight, this, that, anything the insurance company fancies at the time. You talk a lot about choices. Well, I am all for EVERYONE being insured. I will not judge people for the choices they make, good or bad. Everyone is an equal human being and deserves good medical care, regardless of the choices they make in life, upbringing, education, employment or income. It's basic humanity.

[icyounurse]

Ahh, the thread has been moved. I guess another 30 plus page debate was not in the cards

[HM2Viking]

Socialized medicine=All providers are directly employed by the government.

Socialized finance=Government acts as the transfer agent for health care payments and fees for service.

Socialized finance operates with a 3% overhead cost.

Private insurance 31%.

Which is the better bargain?

[dee78]

Originally Posted by Ogopogo

"If I didn't know any better"????? DO NOT imply that I am in any way stupid.

"depending on the government to support me and I won't teach my children to live that way either"

The government DOES NOT support me or my family. My husband and I work and support our family! Our very hard earned income is taxed and that is what pays for UHC for us and all citizens of Canada. My children are in NO WAY being taught to "depend on the government" to support them.



You are entitled to your views on UHC, just as I am. However, I have class and tact on my side. You are just coming across as ignorant and self-righteous.

Edit: Lets just read the thread a few below this one which is entitled "My son was denied health insurance!". Again, I'm SO GLAD I live where there is UHC and you can't be denied for being overweight, underweight, this, that, anything the insurance company fancies at the time. You talk a lot about choices. Well, I am all for EVERYONE being insured. I will not judge people for the choices they make, good or bad. Everyone is an equal human being and deserves good medical care, regardless of the choices they make in life, upbringing, education, employment or income. It's basic humanity.

I love when people take a statement and turn it into more than is there...typical of politics.

I didn't imply that you were stupid, just that when you grow up a certain way that is all you know and that is what you think is right. I did not mean any offense by that statement. You live in Canada, that is all you've known so it doesn't seem like depending on the gov't. Here in the US that is exactly what it is.

Just because I disagree with you does not make me ignorant or self-righteous. We can agree to disagree without namecalling.

[CarrieH]

Originally Posted by dee78

There are many jobs out there that do offer health insurance. I've never worked a job that didn't offer health insurance, granted it is expensive at times but that is when you make CHOICES. That's the key word here. People make choices in their lives and then don't want to deal with the consequences of those choices. Just about every town has a hospital that offers health insurance. Every hospital has entry level positions that only require a GED/HS diploma. Anyone with an average IQ can get a GED. People choose to not get an education. There are many government programs out there to help people get their GED, to earn a college degree, etc. It's all about choices, some people choose to be self-sufficient and others choose to rely on the government. I believe that if the government weren't there to fall back on then people would have to be self-sufficient. I don't believe that it is the government's place to provide healthcare for the citizens.

I find it asinine to expect someone else to pay myy medical bills. I suppose if that's how I grew up and I didn't know any better I would think it was an okay program but I didn't grow up depending on the government to support me and I won't teach my children to live that way either.

Yes, every hospital offers health insurance for their employees and I chose to work for one. I also chose the cheaper program that had more limited benefits, but it was enough for me and my family. Then the hospital chose to take it away from me (and other employees) and force us to take the more expensive program. I now pay over $400 a month for insurance that I hesitate to use (even when my family needs it) because I have a deductible of $500 per person and a 20% co-insurance. After paying the premium, taxes, food, utilities ect... I don't have that extra cash in my bank account on my medical assistant's salary.

Speaking of education, that benefit was reduced by the hospital as well due to the economy. Scholarships and grants aren't as easy to get either (I've been trying). I choose to stay at my job despite this because I have a family to support and need to pay the bills... but it would be nice to not worry about going into more debt just because one of us gets sick while I'm choosing to work, pay for health insurance, and go to school to better myself. I'd even be willing to pay $400 a month for that piece of mind.

I know this is off-topic but it needs to be said. Everyone can and should try to make good choices, but things don't always turn out right. Some of us are luckier than others. I have always been one of those people that has to work twice as hard for everything and whose "good" choices frequently end up going wrong (20/20 hindsight). Right now I choose to take it one day at a time. That being said, there are many out there for whom the choice would be pay the premium or pay the groceries... work at a job with bad or no insurance or don't work at all... pay for college tuition or pay the rent... I myself will have to take a semester off to let my bank account recover from unexpected expenses this year.

Sorry I'm so long-winded, but this subject hits too close to home.

[Ogopogo]

Originally Posted by dee78

I love when people take a statement and turn it into more than is there...typical of politics.

I didn't imply that you were stupid, just that when you grow up a certain way that is all you know and that is what you think is right. I did not mean any offense by that statement. You live in Canada, that is all you've known so it doesn't seem like depending on the gov't. Here in the US that is exactly what it is.

Just because I disagree with you does not make me ignorant or self-righteous. We can agree to disagree without namecalling.

I don't think you're ignorant and self-righteous for disagreeing with me over UHC. You are entitled to your opinion.

I do however think you are taking an ignorant and self-righteous stand when you keep talking about "choices". Just like the example that the poster above listed.

What about the 21 year-old, 4th year college student who can't afford insurance, is diagnosed with osteomyelitis and can't finish his last 6 months of his degree and winds up with a dead end job after he recovers just to keep up with his bills and repaying his medical costs? Did he make bad choices?

What about the young married couple whose birth control fails, wind up with a baby, but arn't priviliged enough to work in jobs that offer insurance. Did they make bad choices?

There are too many more examples to list. But again, it's not about what choices people make. It's a basic human necessity to have decent and affordable health coverage. You seem to think that if people have not made "good" choices in life as I guess you apparently have, then they're not worthy. I think it's a bunch of BS.


You live in Canada, that is all you've known so it doesn't seem like
depending on the gov't. Here in the US that is exactly what it is.

Oh, and this statement is quite the steriotype. I hardly think you speak for all Americans. Let them decide for themselves. I've been apart of many message boards, mostly with Americans and I have NEVER ONCE heard any of them make a statement anywhere along these lines.

[Mickey15]

Originally Posted by PiPhi2004

I'd just like to see how Universal Health Care will be regulated to make sure we aren't wasting money. I, however, dont trust that UHC will be regulated by anyone with people's interests at heart. The government has shown that they cannot be trusted and as always, the rest of us will suffer with either system in place. End result: The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, like always.

Personally, I think we have done a pretty bang up job of wasting money without UHC being in place. As far as Im concerned the End Result is happening already: The rich get richer while the poor get poorer. I also dont think the current healthcare system has "people's interests at heart" either. Insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, price gouging, redundant services, medical waste, inappropriate services, over or underutilization of medical services ....... As far as I am concerned, there is no one size fits all but sooner rather than later I believe that UHC is going to here especially with the boomer generation population bust and the current healthcare and medicare system.

[dee78]

Originally Posted by Ogopogo

I don't think you're ignorant and self-righteous for disagreeing with me over UHC. You are entitled to your opinion.

I do however think you are taking an ignorant and self-righteous stand when you keep talking about "choices". Just like the example that the poster above listed.

What about the 21 year-old, 4th year college student who can't afford insurance, is diagnosed with osteomyelitis and can't finish his last 6 months of his degree and winds up with a dead end job after he recovers just to keep up with his bills and repaying his medical costs? Did he make bad choices?

What about the young married couple whose birth control fails, wind up with a baby, but arn't priviliged enough to work in jobs that offer insurance. Did they make bad choices?

There are too many more examples to list. But again, it's not about what choices people make. It's a basic human necessity to have decent and affordable health coverage. You seem to think that if people have not made "good" choices in life as I guess you apparently have, then they're not worthy. I think it's a bunch of BS.


You live in Canada, that is all you've known so it doesn't seem like
depending on the gov't. Here in the US that is exactly what it is.

Oh, and this statement is quite the steriotype. I hardly think you speak for all Americans. Let them decide for themselves. I've been apart of many message boards, mostly with Americans and I have NEVER ONCE heard any of them make a statement anywhere along these lines.

I haven't always made good choices. I've been the pregnant college student. I've been the divorced mother of 2 young children, with a deadbeat ex. I've made my fair share of wrong decision but I accepted responsibility for those decisions and learned from them. My daughters and I were on TennCare at one time, I got off ASAP. There was a period of about 8 months that my family did not have insurance, I'm very thankful that we only had a few medical bills from that time. That is why I went back to work fulltime, so I could provide health insurance for my family.

I'm not saying that the examples made bad choices, but they did make the choice to not have insurance. Life is about making choices and accepting the consequences of those choices. I don't see healthcare as a constitutional right that the government has to provide. Simple as that.

[dee78]

Originally Posted by CarrieH

Yes, every hospital offers health insurance for their employees and I chose to work for one. I also chose the cheaper program that had more limited benefits, but it was enough for me and my family. Then the hospital chose to take it away from me (and other employees) and force us to take the more expensive program. I now pay over $400 a month for insurance that I hesitate to use (even when my family needs it) because I have a deductible of $500 per person and a 20% co-insurance. After paying the premium, taxes, food, utilities ect... I don't have that extra cash in my bank account on my medical assistant's salary.

Speaking of education, that benefit was reduced by the hospital as well due to the economy. Scholarships and grants aren't as easy to get either (I've been trying). I choose to stay at my job despite this because I have a family to support and need to pay the bills... but it would be nice to not worry about going into more debt just because one of us gets sick while I'm choosing to work, pay for health insurance, and go to school to better myself. I'd even be willing to pay $400 a month for that piece of mind.

I know this is off-topic but it needs to be said. Everyone can and should try to make good choices, but things don't always turn out right. Some of us are luckier than others. I have always been one of those people that has to work twice as hard for everything and whose "good" choices frequently end up going wrong (20/20 hindsight). Right now I choose to take it one day at a time. That being said, there are many out there for whom the choice would be pay the premium or pay the groceries... work at a job with bad or no insurance or don't work at all... pay for college tuition or pay the rent... I myself will have to take a semester off to let my bank account recover from unexpected expenses this year.

Sorry I'm so long-winded, but this subject hits too close to home.

I understand that it hits close to home. I have my own issues with my company's insurance. As I said in my previous post, I work for my family's insurance because my DH's insurance would be well over $500 a month for less than decent coverage. They are making changes to our insurance AND froze wages so no raises this year. We will make changes to our budget to accommodate these changes.

I look at it from a different POV. I don't think it's up to the gov't to provide healthcare. You know...if they weren't taking a nice chunk of money out of your paycheck every week, you could more easily afford healthcare.