[HM2Viking]

I think your anecdote speaks more to the larger issue of uninsured patients overall. It is a sad case but there are probably a greater number of violent acts committed per capita by citizens than illegals. I don't condone illegal immigration but this post echoes allegations made against each successive waves of immigrants since the founding of the US.

[TNNURSE]

An easy way to disprove all the allegations made against immigrants is to screen them....and allow them to enter here LEGALLY. I mean they are here illegally...as in against the law....as in they broke the law .When cities are stating that they feel that 35-52% of their population consist of illegal immigrants it IS a problem.A problem of safety.For the immigrants and americans alike,How many...how many of us have seen immigrants in the ER with work injuries that were postphoned medical treatment until they were septic and in SERIOUS trouble medically.So the employers get away with it...bc they are undocumented.Another issue is just as arwen stated.....Mexico...is a beautiful place.And as he said most of them would never WANT to be here in the usa IF IF IF they could earn a living in their own country.But they do...have to make a choice......bc their gvt doesnt make their emplyment needs a priority bc they dont have to.They are happy with the usa shouldering that responsibility.So...guys Mexico is a beautiful place, the culture , the landscape...the people.....and we are doing NOTHING to help them.As arwen and others that I have spoken with have repeatedly stated ...if they could earn a wage in their own country they would never never come here.So there are a lot of issues to deal with here...
1. mexican (as an example)gvt doesnt step up to the plate and meets its citizens employment needs.
2.mexicans and central americans would rather stay where their families and beautiful countries are.They arent leaving bc of FEAR...or seeking political assylum....these people are sick over having to leave a beautiful place full of wonderful culture and incredible beauty.

3,when illegal immigrants enter into the usa they are at risk for horrid tx by unscrupulous employers.and those employers do not have to p[ay benefits or health insurance.Their families dont have the luxury of family healthcare coverage.

4.those unmet healthcare needs are met by hospitals who have to eat the costs of medically treating those uninsured undocumented workers and their families.when cities are stating their population is 50% illegal...you do the math.That trickles down to you and me...billions of dollars of healthcare treatment is given .....someone has to pay.....taxes are raised ...and when .hospitals dont make money...we dont get cost of living raises..it affects our families.

5.With unsecured borders we are at risk for criminals to enter into our country and place the usa at risk.
6.I dont like the insinuation that any "group" is all good or bad...bc that is never true.But living under the idea that this isnt costing you and me....is not realistic.You cant fix a problem unless you can see the problem...and to me....this problem traces back to countries that are allowed to get away with not providing employmen t for their citizens...and thus they make their citizens have to leave countries they love...leaving their families and culture behind.We are so busy trying to fix all the countries so far away...why arent we looking closer to home?BC this...affects us all.

[Jessy_RN]

The only realistic solution is to allow those that are already here to become legal citizens and hand out more visas to those wishing to come in (legally).

Deporting everyone already here and building a great big fence along the borders is unrealistic and we all know ppl will STILL continue to "jump it".

I remember when they build the current fence (what a joke). Wonder how many of our tax dollars it cost?

Bottom line, no one wants to be here illegally. Give them the opportunity to become legal and everyone will be happy. Those who want to come for a few years to make $$ to bring back home can do so (while paying taxes here) and then they could go.

Unless that happens, this dilemma is not going to end anytime soon. EVERYONE (legal and illegal) will continue to suffer. Unfortunately, we cannot change what the presidents in those countrys think or do for their ppl. We can only worry about our ppl and govt.

[TNNURSE]

Originally Posted by Future_RN_Jess

The only realistic solution is to allow those that are already here to become legal citizens and hand out more visas to those wishing to come in (legally).

Deporting everyone already here and building a great big fence along the borders is unrealistic and we all know ppl will STILL continue to "jump it".

I remember when they build the current fence (what a joke). Wonder how many of our tax dollars it cost?

Bottom line, no one wants to be here illegally. Give them the opportunity to become legal and everyone will be happy. Those who want to come for a few years to make $$ to bring back home can do so (while paying taxes here) and then they could go.

Unless that happens, this dilemma is not going to end anytime soon. EVERYONE (legal and illegal) will continue to suffer. Unfortunately, we cannot change what the presidents in those countrys think or do for their ppl. We can only worry about our ppl and govt.

Maybe ...you are correct.I just dont see how this problem got so big to begin with.I was speaking to a friend of mine in mgmt the other day and she said that her hospital lost 8.2 million dollars last year in illegal immigrant healthcare they provided in this rather smallish community hospital.That population didnt have "ACCESS" to medical coverage bc they are here illegally and are undocumented.But the bottom line is....the cost to provide care is staggering. It isnt a "we dont want to take care of you bc you broke the law and entered our country illegally" mentalality...it isnt that at all. It is the fact that it costs these hospitals major dollars to provide this free care and some...cant afford to eat those kind of costs. Those costs have to be covered by someone and it ends up getting covered by taxpayers. I am not sure if amnesty is the answer...I just dont know.BUt I do often wonder ..."WHY" is it that the USA has to be every countries solution to their problems?When will these other countries become self sufficient when the usa continously has to bail them out?How ...how does that help their citizens in the long run?They are still having to choose years later to either leave a beautiful country they love for work?I cant help but feel that enabling or assisting those governments in provising jobs for its own citizens is the answer..

[Jessy_RN]

Originally Posted by TNNURSE

Maybe ...you are correct.I just dont see how this problem got so big to begin with.I was speaking to a friend of mine in mgmt the other day and she said that her hospital lost 8.2 million dollars last year in illegal immigrant healthcare they provided in this rather smallish community hospital.That population didnt have "ACCESS" to medical coverage bc they are here illegally and are undocumented.But the bottom line is....the cost to provide care is staggering. It isnt a "we dont want to take care of you bc you broke the law and entered our country illegally" mentalality...it isnt that at all. It is the fact that it costs these hospitals major dollars to provide this free care and some...cant afford to eat those kind of costs. Those costs have to be covered by someone and it ends up getting covered by taxpayers. I am not sure if amnesty is the answer...I just dont know.BUt I do often wonder ..."WHY" is it that the USA has to be every countries solution to their problems?When will these other countries become self sufficient when the usa continously has to bail them out?How ...how does that help their citizens in the long run?They are still having to choose years later to either leave a beautiful country they love for work?I cant help but feel that enabling or assisting those governments in provising jobs for its own citizens is the answer..

So, you don't think that by legalizing the one's already here (who meet the requirements, of course) will help this situation? Once legal, they WILL have a SSN, pay taxes etc. (just like the rest of us)

Since deporting them is obviously not a realistic option, then why not legalize them and avoid this headache. They will be happy/grateful and so will you and your hospital!!

[Elvish]

Originally Posted by TNNURSE

I was speaking to a friend of mine in mgmt the other day and she said that her hospital lost 8.2 million dollars last year in illegal immigrant healthcare they provided in this rather smallish community hospital.That population didnt have "ACCESS" to medical coverage bc they are here illegally and are undocumented.But the bottom line is....the cost to provide care is staggering. It isnt a "we dont want to take care of you bc you broke the law and entered our country illegally" mentalality...it isnt that at all. It is the fact that it costs these hospitals major dollars to provide this free care and some...cant afford to eat those kind of costs.

I wouldn't pin so much of the blame for that on illegal immigrants. I work in a big (800+ beds) teaching hospital that gave away millions of dollars in charity care in fiscal year 2005-06 and we still had our most profitable year ever. To the tune that everybody got almost 6% of their annualized salary as a December bonus. A big part of financial solvency is good management of resources. I'm not talking about border hospitals; I can see where the problem would be there. But for those of us in the interior, I don't know that it's the illegal immigrants that are causing the problem. At least, they're not causing them where I am. Edited to add that we are a not-for-profit hospital.

[kcochrane]

Originally Posted by Future_RN_Jess

The only realistic solution is to allow those that are already here to become legal citizens and hand out more visas to those wishing to come in (legally).

Deporting everyone already here and building a great big fence along the borders is unrealistic and we all know ppl will STILL continue to "jump it".

I remember when they build the current fence (what a joke). Wonder how many of our tax dollars it cost?

Bottom line, no one wants to be here illegally. Give them the opportunity to become legal and everyone will be happy. Those who want to come for a few years to make $$ to bring back home can do so (while paying taxes here) and then they could go.

Unless that happens, this dilemma is not going to end anytime soon. EVERYONE (legal and illegal) will continue to suffer. Unfortunately, we cannot change what the presidents in those countrys think or do for their ppl. We can only worry about our ppl and govt.

A fence is only part of the solution. A fence/wall is meant to slow down those coming in illegally. BUT if we don't have enough agents to respond to those coming over the fence, then it IS a waste of money. Bottom line is that we do need to control the border. If that is not done we continue to have a problem with illegal immigration...even if we do issue more work visas and give visas to those already here.

Again take a look at the amnesty problem done back in the 80's. Didn't help because we did not close down and control all our borders. We have an even bigger problem now.

Until you control the borders and issue more work visas, this will continue to be a problem - both to the US and to those entering here illegally.

[HM2Viking]

What Ronald Reagan once referred to as the "illegal-alien fuss" has fulminated into a frenzy of demonizing where behind every social ill lurks a brown-skinned illegal immigrant.
Reagan famously provided amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants in 1986, appreciating America's historical role as a beacon of hope — a "shining city upon a hill" — to people around the world. Contrast that with the always-simmering anti-illegal immigrant fury among many who call Reagan their godfather.

The best line is this:

There is also an amazingly simple way to deal with the fact that they are illegal: Pass comprehensive immigration reform and provide them a path to citizenship.
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition...pcom29.art.htm

[TNNURSE]

Originally Posted by Future_RN_Jess

So, you don't think that by legalizing the one's already here (who meet the requirements, of course) will help this situation? Once legal, they WILL have a SSN, pay taxes etc. (just like the rest of us)

Since deporting them is obviously not a realistic option, then why not legalize them and avoid this headache. They will be happy/grateful and so will you and your hospital!!

Hmm..I am still not "sold" on the amnesty aspect. I feel like its rewarding illegal behavoir.Also...we need to keep in mind...these guys are not seeking polotical assylum(msp?)...they are not in fear of their lives.They are leaving a beautiful country full of rich heritage and most....most are not here bc they want to be.IF they had a choice they'd rather stay in their own beautiful country, where their families have lived for centuries, in a beautiful land full of rich culture.Its not like they are living in cambodia and are in fear of their lives.America is not always better......we are not always everyones "#1 choice".We may have the grand canyon , but they have the copper mountains, cancun, tulum, mayan ruins, the mayan riveria, this is a beautiful country with a lousy gvt that needs to be refocused on taking care of meeting its citizens employment needs. This country ( like mexico) has incredibly talented citizens......and yes I am for mexico having as many visas granted as other countries do...but not more...and not less. I think everyone should also look at what they are leaving...and what we are robbing their families of by not helping their gvt refocus on meeting its own citizens employemnt needs.Most ( not all but most) would rather stay in their own beautiful countries IF their gvt would meet their employment needs....america.....has a long hx of just saying "oh they will be so much better in the long run if they live here...forget where their families have lived for centuries...forget their culture....forget their ancestry....forget the fact that they really would rather live in their own country .But...we cant forget that....the huge number of immigrants from these countries like belize is a cry for the us to step in and help those countries.....not just take...TAKE all their citizens who openly tell you "hey we'd rather be back in belize/honduras/mexico".That is just my opinion....help the countries "refocus" on employment needs of its people.....bc they are not running for their lives and seeking political asylum ...they are looking for wages.America has this long hx of "deeming" that citizens of certain countries would be better off here in the usa even when they say "hey we want to live in our own country where our families have lived for centuries"....instead of helping those countries meet its citizens needs.That is just my opinion....I think the root cause analysis of the problem should be what we try to fix.....bc otherwise we are inflicting an american culture on citizens who really want to be in their own country.just imo

[Elvish]

I feel like its rewarding illegal behavoir.

That statement implies that they have another realistic choice. The whopping majority don't. The talking heads on TV would have you believe that it's as easy as filling out a couple papers, waiting a couple weeks, paying a couple hundred bucks, and you're in. Not so.

Also...we need to keep in mind...these guys are not seeking polotical assylum(msp?)...they are not in fear of their lives

Perhaps they don't fear for their lives politically (though death squads and gangs are still rampant) but economically yes, most DO fear for their lives. Maybe they aren't seeking political asylum but most could
NOT make it where they are.

Its not like they are living in cambodia and are in fear of their lives.

Hmmm. I could take that and go any number of directions. I'm not trying to diminish what the Cambodians under Pol Pot went through here. I have done a lot of research on that and it is heartbreaking. But lives are still taken in Mexico for people who tell the truth. Try to fight crime and your decapitated body gets left at your family's doorstep. Did you know that in Nicaragua police have to pay a war tax to gangsters to keep the gangsters from harming the officers' families? (These are all taken straight from Spanish-language newspapers.) Your statement assumes a lot. You are assuming that people in Latin America have the right to free speech, freedom of assembly, and a whole host of other rights that we are guaranteed by our constitution. Not all do.

Most (not all but most) would rather stay in their own beautiful countries IF their gvt would meet their employment needs

And their safety needs, and their education needs, and their health needs. I don't see that happening anytime soon, unfortunately. Not when you have to pay for school past the 6th grade in Mexico. Not when if you don't have the money for an emergency appy, you don't get it. And then you die.

I'm not saying that countries shouldn't take responsibility for the care of their citizens. I'm just saying that Mexico & the countries of Central America have only been independent from colonial rule for a hundred years or so. Their governments are still working out the kinks. And there has, in their histories, been a high tolerance for government corruption at the highest levels. Fixed elections. Stuffing ballot boxes to ensure the same party wins time after time. Bribes that can make the police look the other way while the most dastardly of criminals carry on with their drug/human trafficking/other horrible things. This is such a complicated subject. I don't think it's as simple as making governments take responsibility, though I do agree that that's necessary. I just don't see it happening in my lifetime. I hope I'm wrong.

In the meantime, what do you suggest we do with all 12-20 million people here already? Leave them as is? That's rewarding them too. Deport them all? Not going to happen, and our own gov't has said so. It sounds real good on paper, but it's not realistic. This may rankle people, but give them their papers and move on. Close the border if you like, but there's got to be an easier way to get here, or a wall all the way to China won't help.