[UKRNinUSA]

OK, I agree I'm biased coming from the UK, but I still can't understand why the USA doesn't have good, old-fashioned universal healthcare just like most of the rest of the industrialized world. After all we are number one- right? And no, I'm not saying that the National Health System in the UK is all that! I'm over here, aren't I? But I came across an article "Time to Socialize Medicine" by Timothy Noah (http://www.slate.com/id/2153275/)the other day that got me thinking about it in a different light. The article mentioned that big corporations were going broke with the cost of healthcare and which linked me to another article that claimed that American industry could no longer be competitive in a global market, because the cost of health care was eating away at the bottom line
(U.S. Firms Losing Health Care Battle, GM Chairman Says
By Ceci Connolly http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...005Feb10.html).
So if the corporations are really the ones that are running the country, just like all the liberal progressives are saying, are people like me that want universal healthcare just lobbying the wrong people? Shouldn't we be reaching out to those "evil" corporations, extending the hand of "bipartisanship" to achieve a common goal? If the corporations got rid of that cost, their profits would go up, everybody gets affordable healthcare and everybody's happy. Maybe they could even see their way to giving us a pay raise!?
Anyway, just a thought - the democrats have the house and senate, bipartisanship is in the air and George Bush is meeting with the heads of three big US automakers today to discuss, amongst other things, the cost of healthcare. Maybe we'll all get lucky - here's hoping.

[cabkrun]

Look for it soon I would think. We are blind to the fact that our health care "system" is more expensive (massive administrative costs in part) yet produces poorer results. But when the big auto makers start to stomp their feet saying they can't compete with other countries because of health care costs in this country (whether this is truly the reason is debatable) then look for some possible changes. Corporations are starting to expand in other countries in order to save costs from providing health care to employees.

People in the U.S. seem to think that health care coverage for its citizens means socialism, which is silly. Isn't it about living in a civilized society? In reality it's about Public Health, and not having coverage (altho in some ways we do, as it's called the Emergency Room - which is really an $$$ way to provide coverage) is a Public Health Crisis. I'm sure I'll receive some flames, but I'm not backing down .

You aren't biased. Altho the health care system in the UK has it's own problems, at least people are generally covered.

[UKRNinUSA]

It seems you might be right. I just got my new copy of ENA connection which has a piece on John Kitzbhaber, MD an ER doc and former Oregon governer who has started a movement for universal healthcare using the US public education system as a model i.e. we are all entitled to it, it's publicly subsidized, everyone contributes to it and if you can afford to, you can buy more if you'd like. I checked out the website (About the Archimedes Movement | Archimedes Movement) and it seems that the movement is spreading from Oregon into Washington and California. Sounds promising.

[cabkrun]

Yes, the Canadian model might be similar. Everyone has basic coverage, the administration is done by a private source, claims paid for by the government. If you want different or expanded coverage, you are free to pay for private insurance if you want.
Thanks for the links, interesting.

[ZASHAGALKA]

Because, as the 20th century amply showed, communism doesn't work, anywhere it's tried.

As far as looking for a model similar to our public school system: that system is fundamentally broken. If you doubt that, look at how many American parents opt out of that system. And look how our public school students compare to those educated practically anywhere else.

When you play to the lowest common denominator, what you get is the lowest common demoninator.

Oh, and ask the NHS nurses in the UK what THEY think about their wonderful system.

But, here's hoping that Hillary burns herself on this third rail again.

"Close enough for government work" just isn't a phrase most people want associated with their health.

~faith,
Timothy.

[cabkrun]

Communism? How did communism come out of this conversation? That's absolutely laughable. Our public educational systems are "broken" because parents have given up responsibility in being a part of the education of their children. Plus, the media has let us all know how horrible education is in this country, no? Send your kid to a public school, and what a horrible parent you are. I have friends with kids in both public and private, and all are doing fine. They are involved and help in their education.

Kids start school much earlier in many other countries, and their education isn't based upon self-esteem building type crap. And, IMO people in this country have grown lazy and complacent, believing their birth right is continuous prosperity w/o having to work for it.

Nowhere did we say the NHS is perfect either. London is struggling too, but my husbands father is in London with heart disease and he has received perfectly good care. He didn't come running over to the US, even tho he could have.

70% of Canadians say that their biggest fear is being forced to adopt a US Health Care type system. You think our "System" is superior? Much has indicated otherwise.

When companies continue to expand overseas because of health care costs in this country, and you no longer have a job, and are subjected to diseases from untreated people walking around, you might change your mind.

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by cabkrun

Communism? How did communism come out of this conversation? That's absolutely laughable. Our public educational systems are "broken" because parents have given up responsibility in being a part of the education of their children.

And the problem with our health-care system is because it's a 3rd party payor system, people have given up the responsibility to be part of their own health-care solutions.

How is bringing that 'full circle' a better solution?

What our healthcare system needs is some good ole capitalist reforms that make people, as you say, MORE connected to the process - not less.

The problem with 'standardized' healthcare is that 'standard' is all too often, quite substandard. No thanks.

What you fail to realize is that most people here wouldn't trust the gov't to take care of their dog. You aren't going to get a groundswell of American support to turn their healthcare over to such renowned inefficiency.

~faith,
Timothy.

[Freedom42]

I think universal health care will be here within the next 10 years. As soon as U.S. corporations realize -- and they do, in growing numbers -- that this country is the only major industrialized nation that requires them to tack the cost of a worker's health care onto their products' prices, they'll demand a level playing field.

Toyota found that level playing field last year by opting to build a new plant in Ontario, ignoring hundreds of millions of dollars in financial incentives offered by southern states. Why? Because Canada has a national health plan. So all those jobs -- and the money they generate -- went north. And companies that treat their workers well in this country by providing them with health care remain penalized. They don't have that competitive edge.

As the playing field becomes more and more uneven, American lawmakers will realize -- for economic reasons -- that health care has to be a right, not a privilege.

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by Freedom42

As the playing field becomes more and more uneven, American lawmakers will realize -- for economic reasons -- that health care has to be a right, not a privilege.

What I have a 'right' to, a Constitutional right to, is for the government to stay out of my life to the greatest extent possible.

And THAT's not just some privilege - it's my right.

Massive redistributions of wealth is nothing more then theft. If it served some greater good, maybe I'd listen to bleeding heart liberals. But trillions of dollars later, and the 'great society' is a failure. Social Security is a pryamid scheme that will bankrupt long before I see a dime of it. Our public schools systems are in shambles, and NOW, I'm supposed to trust the gov't with my health? That's what's laughable, or it would be, if the concept didn't involve outright theft from me, in terms of both money AND my available healthcare.

No thanks. I disagree with this concept because it does the most harm to the most people, not the other way around.

Government is neither my friend nor my daddy. It's a necessary evil to be minimally tolerated. You'll just have to excuse me if I evaluate the past performance of government in an equation that involves entrusting it to my health. I'm not greatly inspired by the concept.

~faith,
Timothy.

[BSNtobe2009]

I personally, don't want to see Universal Healthcare here. What I want, is for the drug companies to be more regulated and stop ripping off the public, and for it to be illegal to advertise ambulance chasing attorney's on TV. I don't think every mistake or error a doctor makes justifies a lawsuit, regardless of the outcome. Some of those people wouldn't get a dime if I was sitting on the jury and I would hold it out to the bitter end.

I worked at a pizza place in college and had a boss that had to bring his mother over from the UK and get a cholesteral plug removed from her jugler vein and paid CASH for it, b/c she was so far down the waiting list for a surgery that he feared she was going to die before she got the surgery.

I don't want the gov't controlling which doctor I see, or if I can get a second opinion or not.

I also don't want to pay the exhorbant taxes that comes with Universal Healthcare.

Citizens here in the USA complain about how much we pay in taxes, but for what we GET for our tax dollars flat out beats about any other industrialized country out there....and I love it.

I'm not bashing the UK, but I want to keep the healthcare the way it is...flaws and all.