[ingelein]

Originally Posted by mjlrn97

Neither am I.

That's why I advocate a system of universal coverage that provides a basic package of health services for every US citizen and is administered at the state level. I think the states are in a much better position to decide what their populations need. I also would have this system administered by a panel of experts in the health, financial, and legal fields rather than politicians. All of the monies that are currently paid to the insurance companies, Medicare, and Medicaid would instead go into a fund that would provide every citizen with preventive care and basic health services. Those who are wealthier can always buy more coverage if they want it, and nobody would be allowed to "opt out" (like with auto insurance) so the contributions would come from the entire population---not just those who are employed or who can afford insurance premiums.

I'm sure there are a gazillion things wrong with this idea, but almost nothing can be worse than 40+ million uninsured and underinsured Americans. We need universal health care, and we need it sooner rather than later!

There are some good state plans out there and in the works, I dont care who administers it as long as the private health insurance companies are out of the mix, OR if they have to be in limit the number of companies, and give them inscrutable oversight. I do tend to favor a federal system just for the continuity of plans nation wide, maybe with the states using the federal funds in their own fashion, but that could get messy.

[VivaLasViejas]

Well, I'm your basic weirdo Libertarian, so to my mind, the less federal involvement the better.

I know this is an odd stance for someone like me to take, a person who is moderate to conservative on most issues. But health care has gone down the proverbial dumper since it was taken over by the HMOs and the insurance companies, and unlike most goods and services, it should not be a part of the free market. It should be something we pay for as a society, like we do for police and fire protection, for roads and ambulance services, for schools and postal service.

Health care isn't a luxury; in a civilized society, it is a must. I don't have a problem with rich people being able to buy more and better care, but I do have a BIG problem with middle and lower income Americans being unable to go to the doctor when they need to because insurance companies have inflated the costs beyond anything the average family can afford. Even for those of us lucky enough to work for companies that provide health insurance, there are plenty of out-of-pocket expenses for doctor visits, meds, tests, hospitalization; for example, in 2005 my co-pays alone added up to over $10,000. That's a big chunk out of a $60,000-a-year income (that's before taxes).

And I know it's far worse for families who aren't as fortunate as ours, who make too much money to qualify for Medicaid but nowhere near enough to be able to afford insurance. This is madness. There is no excuse for a nation as blessed and as wealthy as ours to allow 40+ million of its own citizens to do without health care. We are supposed to be a moral, decent society; but there is nothing moral or decent about a "system" of health care delivery that puts profits before patients and leaves the "care" part out entirely.

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by HM2Viking

Single payer is not socialized medicine.

It is what it is.

~faith,
Timothy.

[ZASHAGALKA]

removed by poster.

~faith,
Timothy.

[ingelein]

Honestly Timothy is there anything about this country you DO like?

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by ingelein

Aren't "WE the people" the government ? If we the people, voted those who we do not trust into the seat of power, should we not blame ourselves?

No. Not like YOU mean it. You mean, since the gov't is beholding to the people, can't the government do ANYTHING, in the name of the people? No. The government was specifically limited to prevent just what you propose.

When our framers said, 'We the People' what they meant was that we the people give government ONLY this much authority, and no more. The Constitution is FAR from the blank check you wish to cash.

Read the Federalist Papers and you will understand that this idea of mob rule that you favor so much was the BIGGEST concern of the framers. They went OUT OF THEIR WAY to limit such ideas. We are not a mob rule democracy. FOR THIS VERY REASON, to prevent what you propose, we are a limited Republic.

~faith,
Timothy.

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by elkpark

I trust them (Congress) a he!! of a lot more than I trust insurance company execs and flunkies ...

Why is that? Those insurance company execs and flunkies can only get away with what they are doing because the government has protected their market. They are in bed together.

Your insurance company can only do what it does because YOU are not their customer. Your employer is. Who gave these idiots the power to ignore you as a customer? The flunkies in the last Congress. And the one before that. And the next one.

I don't see any justification for differentiation. They (Congress and Big Insurance) are all one and the same.

AND NONE OF THEM HAVE YOUR BESTS INTERESTS AT HEART.

Why should they?

~faith,
Timothy.

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by mjlrn97

Neither am I.

That's why I advocate a system of universal coverage that provides a basic package of health services for every US citizen and is administered at the state level. I think the states are in a much better position to decide what their populations need. I also would have this system administered by a panel of experts in the health, financial, and legal fields rather than politicians. All of the monies that are currently paid to the insurance companies, Medicare, and Medicaid would instead go into a fund that would provide every citizen with preventive care and basic health services. Those who are wealthier can always buy more coverage if they want it, and nobody would be allowed to "opt out" (like with auto insurance) so the contributions would come from the entire population---not just those who are employed or who can afford insurance premiums.

I'm sure there are a gazillion things wrong with this idea, but almost nothing can be worse than 40+ million uninsured and underinsured Americans. We need universal health care, and we need it sooner rather than later!

That is pretty much exactly what PNHP has proposed. Run it at the state level. Fund it federally administer it on the state level....

[ingelein]

Originally Posted by ZASHAGALKA

No. Not like YOU mean it. You mean, since the gov't is beholding to the people, can't the government do ANYTHING, in the name of the people? No. The government was specifically limited to prevent just what you propose.


~faith,
Timothy.

No, actually I mean if we the people vote yahoos into the governing seats it is we the people who are even bigger yahoos, so we need to be WAY more selective and DEMAND that those we choose to govern, do "we the peoples" bidding.

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by spacenurse

How can we achieve a system that puts individuals in charge of their own healthcare by enabling them to purchase services for themselves and by making providers acountable to them, not the government or insurance company?

HSA and actual health insurance against catastrophic loss (as opposed to the prepaid plans that are erroneously deemed 'insurance' today.)

You know the free market is the answer. Look at OTC meds as compared to the gov't controlled market (Prescriptions). You are not the customer for prescription meds: you doctor is. Therefore, the pricing is not structured to what YOU would choose - the choice has been taken out of your hands and, as a result, so has the price.

But, the OTC market: wow! What choice, and what affordable pricing. WHEN, OH WHEN was the last time you paid $100 for an OTC drug? The market can only price what the market will bear.

Take that control OUT of the hands of the consumer, and the market no longer cares ABOUT the consumer. The market only cares about its customer and THAT is the person that pays.

Once you are completely circumvented from the decision making process, government, in combination with their lobbyists, will make all your health care decisions. In those smoke-filled rooms, you can bet that YOUR BEST INTERESTS will not be under discussion.

~faith,
Timothy.