[ingelein]

Originally Posted by Jolie

Can you post a source of this statistic? It's a bit of a moot point. Retired seniors have no option other than Medicare, which, BTW most must supplement with a private plan in order to obtain adequate coverage.

Medicare need reforms too, if we had a good single payer plan it would cover all.I will go to the AARP website , I know I have read many heated debates about privatization of medicare and the HUGE UPROAR it caused. Seniors do not want privatization. I will look for the statistics you want , but when you get them you may just dismiss them anyway.

OK, I will start with this, but there are many more I can post here and will.
http://www.familiesusa.org/assets/pd...zation-oct.pdf

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3062725.shtml

http://www.medicarerights.org/advocates.html

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:..._poll/index.as

http://community.aarp.org/n/pfx/foru...sues&tid=44042

http://community.aarp.org/n/pfx/foru...sues&tid=49635

[Jolie]

Originally Posted by ingelein

Medicare need reforms too, if we had a good single payer plan it would cover all.I will go to the AARP website , I know I have read many heated debates about privatization of medicare and the HUGE UPROAR it caused. Seniors do not want privatization. I will look for the statistics you want , but when you get them you may just dismiss them anyway.

OK, I will start with this, but there are many more I can post here and will.
http://www.familiesusa.org/assets/pd...zation-oct.pdf

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3062725.shtml

http://www.medicarerights.org/advocates.html

I'll look thru these while I eat my lunch. One point I'm trying to make is that Medicare is, in effect, a joint public/private venture. Beneficiaries are responsible for premuims, deductibles, co-pays, and in most cases, selecting and paying for supplemental insurance offered by private companies. So while the system is not completely privatized, there is a significant aspect of private insurance within Medicare. This allows Medicare beneficiaries some control over their plan and demands an element of personal responsibility, 2 things that seem to be lacking from most universal healthcare proposals. Just as you state that seniors do not want a fully privatized system, many of us do not want to be forced into a wholly government system of universal healthcare. Let us keep what works well for us, and work out a system to cover the uninsured that allows some freedom of choice and demands some personal accountability.

[Jolie]

ingelin,

I read the CBS article. I can't get the other 2 to open (probably due to a glitch on my computer). It highlights one member's dissatisfaction with a Medicare Advantage program he voluntarily enrolled in. Some seniors desire these plans for their added benefits (dental and vision). He found the plan to be unworkable. The point is that he chose the plan, and come open enrollment-time, he can choose to go back to traditional Medicare. At the same time, there are other seniors who find Advantage plans to be superior to traditional Medicare. The system offers seniors choice and demands personal responsibility in paying premiums, selecting a plan (on a yearly basis), purchasing supplemental insurance, etc. I don't see that as a problem.

[ingelein]

Originally Posted by Jolie

I'll look thru these while I eat my lunch. One point I'm trying to make is that Medicare is, in effect, a joint public/private venture. Beneficiaries are responsible for premuims, deductibles, co-pays, and in most cases, selecting and paying for supplemental insurance offered by private companies. So while the system is not completely privatized, there is a significant aspect of private insurance within Medicare. This allows Medicare beneficiaries some control over their plan and demands an element of personal responsibility, 2 things that seem to be lacking from most universal healthcare proposals. Just as you state that seniors do not want a fully privatized system, many of us do not want to be forced into a wholly government system of universal healthcare. Let us keep what works well for us, and work out a system to cover the uninsured that allows some freedom of choice and demands some personal accountability.

I do not endorse a mandated system in which people can not opt out of UHC.Health care access cannot be trusted to private endevors as is shown in the links Ive posted, BUT those who do not want UHC should not be forced to have it.When Social Security was first introduced, Americans were allowed to opt out, why not UHC too?

[Jolie]

I think that you and I hold fundamentally different beliefs that will prevent us from ever agreeing on universal healthcare. You seem to inherently distrust private enterprise in favor of government. My beliefs are just the opposite. You raise an interesting point that SS was once a voluntary program, but no longer is. I expect that UHC will follow suit, with the government ultimately removing all choice from the program. Just one of many reasons I will fight against a nationwide government program.

Thanks for the debate!

[ingelein]

Originally Posted by Jolie

I think that you and I hold fundamentally different beliefs that will prevent us from ever agreeing on universal healthcare. You seem to inherently distrust private enterprise in favor of government. My beliefs are just the opposite. You raise an interesting point that SS was once a voluntary program, but no longer is. I expect that UHC will follow suit, with the government ultimately removing all choice from the program. Just one of many reasons I will fight against a nationwide government program.

Thanks for the debate!

I can only trust a government by the people for the people, not a government by the special interests for the corporate elite, your welcome.

[CRNA2007]

Who do you think will be running government sponsored healthcare? Lobbyists of course. The left constantly complains how drug companies run Medicare PartD. Why do you not think special interests will get their way with any government healthcare legislation?

Originally Posted by ingelein

I can only trust a government by the people for the people, not a government by the special interests for the corporate elite, your welcome.

[ingelein]

Originally Posted by CRNA2007

Who do you think will be running government sponsored healthcare? Lobbyists of course. The left constantly complains how drug companies run Medicare PartD. Why do you not think special interests will get their way with any government healthcare legislation?

The government,the people we VOTED into office.Different government, different ethics.

[Jolie]

Originally Posted by ingelein

The government,the people we VOTED into office.Different government, different ethics.

The make-up of that government changes to some extent every 2 years. If you mis-trust the current holders of elected office (President, House and Senate), what makes you think that future combinations of these elected officials will be any "better"? You may get a President and Congress that you like in the next election, and then see them voted out of office within 2-4 years, in favor of officials whom you don't trust. It seems risky to trust your healthcare to government when the "wrong" people are likely to be in charge at least 1/2 of the time.

[ingelein]

Originally Posted by Jolie

The make-up of that government changes to some extent every 2 years. If you mis-trust the current holders of elected office (President, House and Senate), what makes you think that future combinations of these elected officials will be any "better"? You may get a President and Congress that you like in the next election, and then see them voted out of office within 2-4 years, in favor of officials whom you don't trust. It seems risky to trust your healthcare to government when the "wrong" people are likely to be in charge at least 1/2 of the time.

Hmmm... I dont think any president has been as "WRONG" for America as the Bush administration has, in a long long time and hopefully we have collectively learned a hard lesson. As for the Senate and House, if the majority can stay Democratic I wont worry as much.