[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by lizz

Personally ... I used to be sympathetic to illegals until the one day march/walkout. That completely changed my mind.

You come here illegally, you get free healthcare, schools, ... all kinds of social services ... and you're going to DEMAND that we give you more when you're breaking our laws? I don't think so.

They go on and on about how the state of California once belonged to Mexico and that it belongs to them now. If California did belong to Mexico THEY WOULDN'T WANT IT ANYMORE. They'd be illegally going to over to other states instead.

The last straw was putting the National Anthem in Spanish. Enough already.

I complete lost my sympathy for those people on that day.

Was the Immigration protest any different than the civil rights marches of the 60's? They were marching to protest discrimination as well as to petition for a redress of grievances from government. (I believe that President Bush sang the National Anthem in Spanish during his first campaign. Why was it ok for Candidate Bush to sing the anthem in spanish and not people who are seeking to express their point of view.) I personally prefer that it be sung in English but as long as the Anthem was accurately translated into Espanol they were paying respect to our constitution. The showing of a Mexican Flag was no different than the Sons of Norway marching in a Fourth of July parade under a Norwegian flag. My point is not to be provocative but more to illustrate the importance of protecting everyone's civil rights.

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by HM2Viking

My point is not to be provocative but more to illustrate the importance of protecting everyone's civil rights.

Yeah ... illegals "rights" to take our jobs, drive down our wages and consume our taxpayer funded services so corporations can make bigger bucks.

Their "rights" to get free healthcare at ER's to the point that ER's have to shut down so the entire population has to suffer.

C'mon. There's no way this even comes close to the civil rights movement.

Nobody is discriminating against these people because of their race.

They're breaking the law!

This is absurd.

[cardiacRN2006]

Originally Posted by lizz

Personally ... I used to be sympathetic to illegals until the one day march/walkout. That completely changed my mind.

You come here illegally, you get free healthcare, schools, ... all kinds of social services ... and you're going to DEMAND that we give you more when you're breaking our laws? I don't think so.

They go on and on about how the state of California once belonged to Mexico and that it somehow belongs to them now. If California did belong to Mexico THEY WOULDN'T WANT IT ANYMORE. They'd be illegally going to over to other states instead.

The last straw was putting the National Anthem in Spanish. Enough already.

I complete lost my sympathy for those people on that day.

I agree 100%!
To actually demand that we don't call them illegal, to demand better healthcare than the average American receives, to demand that we teach their children in Spanish....and to boot, if we didn't give in to their demands they promised to do their best to hurt us finacially!
Doesn't sound like a group of law-abiding citizens that I want to give access to special citizenship.
There is a process for citizenship-why do illegal mexicans get to demand some sort of special treatment for obtaining it? Do people in Rwanda get the same treatment? Last I checked, there was no genocide in Mexico. No, all the Mexicans are being killed by the sun in the desert because we allow this beast to get out of control.

Out of curiosity HM2Viking, what state do you live in?

[Cococure]

Originally Posted by TheCommuter

No offense is intended, but I wholly agree with this new law. I am from California, a state that has been financially devastated by providing costly services such as healthcare, education, and social programs to illegal immigrants.

Originally Posted by TheCommuter

Six years ago I was a grocery store clerk in a city that had a large immigrant population. I would cash the payroll checks of these individuals who always provided a resident alien card as a form of identification. The groceries would be paid for with food stamps, the baby formula and cereals would be paid for with WIC vouchers, and a welfare check would be cashed at the end of the entire transaction. The aforementioned scenario would occur multiple times throughout my workshifts at the supermarket. My honest opinion is that illegal immigrants utilize more services than they reasonably pay for.

Just to clear what i have highlighted above. If you have a resident alien card/green card you are not an illegal immigrant you are a legal resident and as a legal resident you pay taxes. I am not a proponent of the "free for all" healthcare or social services there should be limitations. I have also seen the above situation being abused by American citizens. If someone has never come from a 3rd world country where the US dollar can do so much, well, you will never understand why they come here in droves. It sometimes seems so easy to blame an ethnic group for driving down wages when the wages or the jobs that they do many citizens would never consider doing. For example chicken factories and farms in GA employ many illegal immigrants simply because they cannot find other workers. The road to being a US citizen is a long, challenging and expensive one and it takes an average of 10 or more years; that is if you meet their requirements and ofcourse most illegal immigrants would not!!

[EDValerieRN]

Originally Posted by lizz

Yeah ... illegals "rights" to take our jobs, drive down our wages and consume our taxpayer funded services so corporations can make bigger bucks.

Immigrants are not driving down our wages. Congress is, in two ways: Not raising minimum wage ($5.15/hr??!! Are you kidding?!) and not holding corporations responsible for hiring these immigrants.

Immigrants aren't coming here because they WANT to ruin our country and screw us over. They are coming over here because they were invited by our CEO's.

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by Cococure

Just to clear what i have highlighted above. If you have a resident alien card/green card you are not an illegal immigrant you are a legal resident and as a legal resident you pay taxes. I am not a proponent of the "free for all" healthcare or social services there should be limitations. I have also seen the above situation being abused by American citizens. If someone has never come from a 3rd world country where the US dollar can do so much, well, you will never understand why they come here in droves. It sometimes seems so easy to blame an ethnic group for driving down wages when the wages or the jobs that they do many citizens would never consider doing. For example chicken factories and farms in GA employ many illegal immigrants simply because they cannot find other workers. The road to being a US citizen is a long, challenging and expensive one and it takes an average of 10 or more years; that is if you meet their requirements and ofcourse most illegal immigrants would not!!

Remittances to their home countries are why they come. From what I have read many workers come up here just to make enough money to support their families back home but do not really start out with the intent of living here.

I was reading over at the ACLU website about how the ACLU has actually filed a lawsuit on behalf of several immigrants who have completed the steps to citizenship but are awaiting FBI clearance that has no time limit for completion. Part of fixing the immigration mix will require that Congress clarify and simplify the steps to legal entry for the purpose of residency vs that of people who are willing to come as temporary workers.

Frankly, it will be much cheaper and more effective to aggressively enforce our current punitive sanctions against THE EMPLOYERS of illegal immigrants than it will be to close our borders. (If you build a 50 foot fence the next person will bring a 50 foot ladder. Molly Ivins.)

The other prong of solving this problem is that we need to aggressively demand of our trading partners (Nafta, Cafta etc.) that their labor laws require environmental and pay protections on a par with what our own US workers enjoy. (If you level the playing field that will reduce the supply of workers seeking to come North to make a living that will support their families.)

[multicollinearity]

Originally Posted by EDValerieRN

Immigrants are not driving down our wages. Congress is, in two ways: Not raising minimum wage ($5.15/hr??!! Are you kidding?!) and not holding corporations responsible for hiring these immigrants.

Immigrants aren't coming here because they WANT to ruin our country and screw us over. They are coming over here because they were invited by our CEO's.

It's not quite that simple. Yes, the minimum wage situation is an outrage. It should be raised. Still, illegal aliens do suppress wages for a certain subset of American workers. Most economists (even liberal ones) will tell you that United States citizens who have not graduated from high school and/or are below average as far as IQ are competing with and losing jobs to illegal aliens. In yesteryear Americana, the not-so-bright among us could work unskilled labor jobs and get by. Now, our not-so-brights (through no fault of their own) are losing these jobs to illegals.

[hope3456]

This is an interesting article on illegal immigration - it was in the rocky mountain post this morning

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...946326,00.html

[multicollinearity]

I live in Southern Arizona. Last election, I went to a local political forum where the local interfaith counsel invites church members to ask questions of those running for office. About 1/2 of those in attendance were immigrants and their activist representatives. Many spoke Spanish and asked their questions thru interpreters. All of their questions were asking the candidates what they would give them. They call illegal aliens "undocumented immigrants." Examples of the questions:

"Will you make sure that undocumented immigrants can get driver's licenses?"

"We want health benefits. Will you make sure undocumented immigrants get medicaid?"

"We want food stamps. Will you promise we get them?"

"We want our AFDC. Will you promise we get it?"

"We want in-state tuition at for undocumented immigrants. Do you promise and pledge?"

"Will you pledge to exempt those whose first language is Spanish from the AIMS test for high school graduation?" (the AIMS test is an Arizona standardized test which is required in order to graduate)

Now as a liberal democrat myself, I was astonished. It was one giant gimme gimme grab session. Please do not assume that those who wish to enforce immigration laws are cold or bigoted. It is crazy living here near the border. The cost of illegal immigration is a epic drain on the state budget.

[cardiacRN2006]

I don't buy the argument that hiring Americans will force the companies to move off shore. Here, the illegals are doing construction, working on farm land, or doing landscape. We aren't going to move the farm to Mexico to get cheaper labor, and the homes need to be built here, not in Mexico. It's just another excuse to justify the 'need' for them being here.
That article says that possibly 30% of illegals have forged papers....I believe the percentage is much, much higher.