[TheCommuter]

Originally Posted by tntrn

Oh, I don't think I'm missing the point at all. My point is that when Americans lose the "I am entitled" attitude and understand that for a high wage they must offer high skills, and when the public (including politicians) begin enforcing that as well, then the unskilled might begin to understand that their skill level is only going to get them a low-paying job.

I agree. A few years ago the unionized grocery store clerks went on strike about a dispute with benefits. These cashiers, bakery workers, meat clerks, and produce stockers were being paid wages as high as $19 hourly with no formal education. In addition, their health insurance and pensions were free. These grocery store folks had that almighty sense of entitlement, as if their lack of education and skills were really worth $19 in the labor market.

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by TheCommuter

I agree. A few years ago the unionized grocery store clerks went on strike about a dispute with benefits. These cashiers, bakery workers, meat clerks, and produce stockers were being paid wages as high as $19 hourly with no formal education. In addition, their health insurance and pensions were free. These grocery store folks had that almighty sense of entitlement, as if their lack of education and skills were really worth $19 in the labor market.

Yeah but ... people seem to forget that a lot of our parents and grandparents raised families on those wages. That's how the middle class in this country was built. There was a time ... long, long ago ... where you could actually raise a family with one paycheck. Not so much anymore.

Now you've got to spend a fortune on an education, and hope you pick the right field so your job doesn't get shipped off to India. Otherwise you're screwed.

Maybe grocery workers and such don't deserve $19 an hour but ... I do think they deserve affordable healthcare and pensions. If the cuts in wages and benefits didn't always go into multi-million dollar executive salaries then ... maybe I'd feel differently.

Personally, I'd rather see grocery workers make $19 an hour than see some sleazy executive make $30 million a year off of those same grocery workers.

[casi]

There are too many uninsured legal Americans who can't afford health insurance and who let serious illnesses slide because they can't afford the care. Hopefully laws like this will help Americans get affordable health insurance from their Government.

[EDValerieRN]

Last month we had a trauma case involving an illegal alien, so INS came to the ER. You guys should have seen the mass exodus from the waiting room when those guys walked in... we were like a ghost town the whole day.

I'm not sure what the solution here is. I do think that anyone should be allowed access to emergency care, regardless of whether they are legal or not. I do not, however, think it is fair that my mother and father don't have health insurance and they are both American citizens working full-time jobs, while my patients don't work at all, aren't citizens, and get their healthcare for free. I'm OK with cutting food stamps, welfare checks, and all that.. but cutting healthcare is a different ballgame... because either way, someone is going to have to pay.

[Asklepios]

I live in a predominantly caucasian area, but we do have a lot of illegals, and they use the ER as a doctor's office. Their kid has a sniffle, they take him to the ER. I had a kidney stone attack a few years and went to the ER. Going through the entrance felt like I was crossing the border into Mexico. Whole families were in there, taking up space. I had to wait 2 hours writhing in pain while uninsured illegals received treatment.

I don't think anyone should be turned away if they are in a life threatening situation, but I also would like to see that, at some point during their visit, the person should be asked to produce verification that they are here legally. If not, someone in the hospital should have to call the police so the person can be arrested once they receive treatment. Maybe even make a holding cell next to the hospital so INS only has to come in once a day to get them all.

I applaud the stance Colorado is taking. Federal and state funded services should be reserved for those who are in this country legally and have paid into those services as taxpayers.

[HM2Viking]

Molly Ivins on Immigration:

Anyway, it was '83 or some year right around there when we held The Fence climbing contest. See, people talked about building The Fence back then, too. The Fence along the Mexican border. To keep Them out.
At the time, the proposal was quite specific -- a 17-foot cyclone fence with bob wire at the top. So a test fence was built at Terlingua, and the First-Ever Terlingua Memorial Over, Under or Through Mexican Fence Climbing Contest took place. Prize: a case of Lone Star beer. Winning time: 30 seconds.
I tell this story to make the one single point about the border and immigration we know to be true: The Fence will not work. No fence will work. The Great darn Wall of China will not work. Do not build a fence. It will not work. They will come anyway. Over, under or through.
Some of you think a fence will work because Israel has one. Israel is a very small country. Anyone who says a fence can fix this problem is a demagogue and an ass.

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by Asklepios

I live in a predominantly caucasian area, but we do have a lot of illegals, and they use the ER as a doctor's office. Their kid has a sniffle, they take him to the ER. I had a kidney stone attack a few years and went to the ER. Going through the entrance felt like I was crossing the border into Mexico. Whole families were in there, taking up space. I had to wait 2 hours writhing in pain while uninsured illegals received treatment.

I don't think anyone should be turned away if they are in a life threatening situation, but I also would like to see that, at some point during their visit, the person should be asked to produce verification that they are here legally. If not, someone in the hospital should have to call the police so the person can be arrested once they receive treatment. Maybe even make a holding cell next to the hospital so INS only has to come in once a day to get them all.

I applaud the stance Colorado is taking. Federal and state funded services should be reserved for those who are in this country legally and have paid into those services as taxpayers.

Molly Ivins (Again)
Numero Two-o, should you actually want to stop Mexicans and OTMs (other than Mexicans) from coming to the United States, here is how to do it: Find an illegal worker at a large corporation. This is not difficult -- brooms and mops are big tip-offs. Then put the CEO of that corporation in prison for two or more years for violating the law against hiring illegal workers.

I disagree with putting Hospital staff into the Immigration Law enforcement business. Too much potential risk of assault and violence being created by intrusive questioning. Also, please remember that if illegal aliens are working that they are probably using a social security number from a legal friend or relative to obtain the job. BUT they are paying taxes into the system through payroll withholding. Just my nickel......

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by lizz

In SoCal where, of course, we have a horrendous illegal problem ... the local news did a story on a construction project in the middle of Compton. Compton is an African American city where there are many impoverished residents who need jobs.

Nevertheless, every single construction worker was an illegal from Mexico. The black community was up in arms about it because, obviously, they need those jobs. But the contractor would have to pay legal and, consequently, higher wages so ... they hired illegals instead.

So, in that case at least, Americans did want those jobs. The contractor just didn't want to pay more.

When you look at how much housing prices have gone up in California, you realize that illegals have done nothing but increase contractor profits. With housing prices doubling and tripling in the last five years, there's plenty of money to pay decent wages and still make a substantial profit. But the contractors are simply greedy.

I can't tell you how many illegals are working in construction just in my neighborhood alone.

Aggressively prosecute the contractors for breaking the law!

[cateccrn]

When corporate America can abuse, shortchange and underpay it's workers, it will. It as seen as "good management".
They will do all they can to stymie unions in the workplace, lobby against minimum wage hikes, and protest against collective bargaining rules.
AND turn a blind eye against the proliferation of ILLEGAL workers in this country.
WHY? Because they don't CARE about living wages; only about PROFIT.
Our hospital recently hired a CEO, late of MCA, and already we are having our staffing ratios in ICU challenged.
WE are MANDATED by Ca. law, but this toad thinks he can circumvent them.

[fgoff]

I agree with Asklepios!! We call the police from the ER or anywhere else inthe hospital when a law is broken by our citizens. If the person is here illegally then we should call INS... What part of illegal is not understood here?

Health Care & Food stamps are only one part of the problem what about driving with out insurance.
Moving three or more families into single family homes causing sanitation problems for commumities????