[HM2Viking]

[quote=maralenn;1978048]And how much money will this investment consist of? I think we are over-investing as it is. How much more do I have to deny my children so that I can provide for the children of those who steal from me?

What was missed/ignored in my original post was the point that it is bad public policy to not support any of our own citizens for education or health care AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR CHILDREN. (The children of illegal/undocumented workers born in the US are citizens by birthright.) Ultimately my point has been to not visit the sins of the fathers onto the children.

[SaderNurse05]

Originally Posted by StNeotser

Did he have travel medical insurance and they still wanted this money? Nobody should ever go anywhere in the world without it.

I'm a little confused about the legal immigrants mentioned in this thread getting public funds. When I immigrated here I either had to become a citizen or have paid ten years worth of taxes before taking any public funds. I haven't wanted nor needed public funds, but I'm wondering how they got foodstamps.

I can tell you how. I have a patient whose is a member of an 11 person family.Both parents are here illegally. When she brought her proof of income, it was a hand written letter in Spanish on notebook paper to the effect of "My name is Juan Valdez. I fix cars and make $1000.00 per month". No copy of income tax returns here. She said this is what she used to get food stamps and WIC. When the program I had to register her for examined the records, the only thing they questioned was that on her food stamp application she said there were 8 children in the house, and on mine she claimed only 3. I have no doubt if I have to prove my income to the State of Texas they are not about to take some handwritten note from my husband. Meanwhile I do have people who are fully disabled who live on $623 per month that qualify for $10 per month in food stamps vs the $460 my other client recieves. Something has to give.

[Fuzzy]

[quote=HM2Viking;1985949]

Originally Posted by maralenn

And how much money will this investment consist of? I think we are over-investing as it is. How much more do I have to deny my children so that I can provide for the children of those who steal from me?

What was missed/ignored in my original post was the point that it is bad public policy to not support any of our own citizens for education or health care AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR CHILDREN. (The children of illegal/undocumented workers born in the US are citizens by birthright.) Ultimately my point has been to not visit the sins of the fathers onto the children.

I don't mind the childern staying as they are citizens by birth. I say send the illegal parents back to their country of orgin with or without the childern. Let that choice be the parent's. The childern can stay as long as they are being cared for by someone who is here legally. Just my thoughts.

Fuzzy

[caliotter3]

I can see all sides of this issue, however, having been born in this country, and having my own life view, I can say that whatever the rules: the rules should be clear, simple to understand for all, and followed. Do not punish one individual or family while letting others reap the rewards. I speak specifically about a family that was recently in the news here in Cali. Parents originally came illegally from the Phillippines. . . assimilated like so many illegals do. Back when an amnesty program was made public, they tried to do the right thing. What did the US govt bureaucracy ultimately do to them and their 3 children? Yes, they were deported. While I do not pretend to be an apologist for immigrants in general, I think it is inexcusable that these people who tried, at some point in time, to follow the rules, as made public by our govt were ultimately punished, while so many flagrantly break the law on a daily basis. And yes, I abhor the fact that neither myself, nor anyone in my immediate family can get a .... thing from my govt when I need it.

[Tim1957]

Originally Posted by studentmalenurse

What i do get is that i dont use terms that the present administration likes to popularize. (criminal activity , terrorist)

Criminal activity ? Thats to funny . But if we were to really use that concept then basically all Americans are criminals, because basically the settlers came here illegaly , stole the land illegaly , killed the natives illegaly, stole slaves illegaly, So basically , we all just need to pack our bags and go because where all criminals.

Now with this comment, you told us everything about your beliefs that we need to know. The posters in this thread were discussing a very real problem and then you chose to bring in this Aztlan argument. You just lost all respect in my eyes.

[weirdRN]

I have an idea. It is my opinion that every child born in the Untied States should not be Automatically a citizen. BOTH their parents should be citizens first. Then they may become citizens when they become adults. I think there should be a test for native born children to become full citizens with all the rights and privelegs there of.

What makes a citizen? To me being a citizen means conforming and adhering to the laws of this country. It means being productive and contributing to the betterment of society. For every minute an illegal alien is here illegally, they are breaking FEDERAL laws and are thus not, in my eyes, eligible for any of the benefits of citizenship, including but not limited to healthcare and education, until they reconcile themselves with society.

That means going through the immigration process legally.

[sunnyjohn]

It every person born in the US had to pass a test (lets say at 18 or 21) to officially become a citizen, most would fail.

Civics and Social studies teaching in schools is terrible.

Even folks with two English speaking American parents and grandparents/cousins/family and friends can barely expound on the basic tenents of US political science.

[NRSKarenRN]

Statistics reported here A dose of reality about the cost of Immigration Reform show that ~ 2/3 uninsured are legal citizens.

In my experience, each generation that lives in the US improves it's lot in life and contributes to society in varying ways. Grandparents have grade school education, parents HS, next genreation college grads---seen this repeatedly across socioeconomic levels and immigrant groups in PA/NJ/DE area over past 50 years. Many studies over the years show this occuring across US.

[Patti 2nd gen RN]

Originally Posted by sunnyjohn

It every person born in the US had to pass a test (lets say at 18 or 21) to officially become a citizen, most would fail.

Civics and Social studies teaching in schools is terrible.

Even folks with two English speaking American parents and grandparents/cousins/family and friends can barely expound on the basic tenents of US political science.

All the more reason to make citizenship something that means something important--that it is something to be earned, valued, and not taken for granted--all the more reason that we need to do better with our education issues--what we take for granted we de-vallue, and then it gets twisted, becomes not what originally intended, and stolen from us, because if we devalue it, we just don't care enough. I come from immigrants that worked for and valued their citizenship, and I work with immigrants that work for and value theirs. We work hard for what is important to us. And standards and boundaries are not evil words. But finding the way to implement the hard rules, and still stay a compssionate human being--that is hard.

[brax881]

Originally Posted by HM2Viking

Children born in the US are citizens as a matter of constitutional law. In other words the US constitution defines any child born on US soil (with 2 narrowly drawn exceptions for children of diplomats and military attache's) as an American citizen.

The assumption that children are a burden on society is just wrong. The Children are the basis of our future as a country. Denying education or health care to our own citizens is bad public policy. I frankly don't give a rats behind about the origins of any childs family. I just want to see our society invest in children in a way that sets them up to become fully functioning members of society. The developmental research clearly shows that children who grow up in poverty, without benefit of proper health, vision, dental or educational care are far more likely to grow up to become adults who are clients of the mental health or correctional systems.

This is why are country is in the state it is in now.

We should focus on our own. Like the elderly people who have worked and paid into SS, and now they can't afford prescriptions or run their heater or air-conditioning because they simply don't have the $. You want to help the children just go into the inner city, we have plenty of US CITIZENS in need of help. And as far as the US constitution defines any child born on US soil as an American citizen, it needs to be changed, too many ILLEGAL immigrants abuse it. If they are in the US legally that one thing, but when they cross the bordered and break the law that’s different.