[cardiacRN2006]

Originally Posted by studentmalenurse

As long as they are working hard and are not performing criminal activity then let them live, if they are destructive then send them back to their country.

By nature of being an illegal immigrant, they are performing an illegal activity.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by HM2Viking

Children born in the US are citizens of the US by law.

I was born and raised here. Where is my FREE HEALTHCARE, my FREE FOOD, my FREE HOUSING? I WANT IT, I WANT I WANT IT NOW!!!

Oh wait I'm one of those people who has a job with no health insurance kind of like a lot of other people who are US citizens. Since I don't have kids, I'm not eligible for public assistance because I make too much money. Oh yeah, I don't speak or understand Spanish so I haven't a clue how to get public assistance through fraud and illegal documentation.

I think that other states need to follow Colorado's lead in this matter. I also would like to see businesses shut down for hiring illegals. I don't care what country they come from. The US is the only country where a CRIMINAL can stand up and demand services without fear of arrest. I don't understand our government sometimes.

Fuzzy

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The US is the only country where a CRIMINAL can stand up and demand services without fear of arrest. I don't understand our government sometimes.

Fuzzy

I never said don't hold illegal immigrants accountable for their mistakes. The real issue is that the immigration violation is a single offense as I understand the law. If someone who broke an immigration law is otherwise leading a productive law-abiding life then we should temper justice with mercy. Those who have committed violent offenses while living illegally in the US could be deported back to their country with a permanent immigration bar. If the only offense is the immigration violation there can be other consequences for example the law could double the time that it takes for them to be eligible for citizenship once they have attained their green card.

What I also spoke to was that if they have children who are born here that the children should not suffer as a result of the mistakes of the parents. These children are US citizens by place of birth under the law and as such should have all the social protections and supports that that status entails just as children whose parents and grandparents have lived here for a hundred years.

The real question I have for everyone who has vented through this thread about immigration issues is "Can you documment and prove that every single one of your ancestors came to the US legally?" If not then you should lose your US citizenship. (Some posters have argued for that point of view.) I don't support or believe in that position. I posed that scenario to call attention to the possible implications of that position in your own life.

We may not like that Immigrants protested the proposed immigration laws but as long as the protest was peaceful they were acting within the rights of assembly and petition that are guaranteed to people under the first Amendment.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment V


No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VIII


Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

In many ways our Constitution was written to protect the minority from tyranny by the majority. The reason I posted these amendments was as a reminder that as people we are all guaranteed the right to freely and peacefully express our viewpoints if we believe that we are being wronged, emtitled to due process in a court of law when accused of a crime and a prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. :wakeneo: If people are accused of a violation of law that matter should be handled through the courts under due process.The courts not only decide whether a crime was committed but also what punishments should be imposed under the law. Punishment is always tempered IAW other factors.

[gauge14iv]

Part of the problem with illegal immigration is that it is uncontrolled. So we deport the felons and criminals. So what? They come right back. There is no control under the current system.

In the long run that does the immigrants who are working to do it the legal way no good either because now they can no longer be differentiated in most peoples minds from a group of criminals.

Make it easier to be legal, and harder to be illegal. Punish employers who hire the illegal, either by law or by boycott.

[HM2Viking]

Some Annotations from the 14th Amendment. (Emphasis added.)

Thus, the Court so far has drawn a tripartite differentiation with respect to governmental restrictions on aliens. First, it has disapproved the earlier line of cases and now would foreclose attempts by the States to retain certain economic benefits, primarily employment and opportunities for livelihood, exclusively for citizens. Second, when government exercises principally its spending functions, such as those with respect to public employment gen[p.1874]erally and to eligibility for public benefits, its classifications with an adverse impact on aliens will be strictly scrutinized and usually fail. Third, when government acts in its sovereign capacity, when it acts within its constitutional prerogatives and responsibilities to establish and operate its own government, its decisions with respect to the citizenship qualifications of an appropriately designated class of public office holders will be subject only to traditional rational basis scrutiny.27 However, the “political function” standard is elastic, and so long as disqualifications are attached to specific occupations28 rather than to the civil service in general, as in Sugarman, the concept seems capable of encompassing the exclusion.
When confronted with a state statute that authorized local school boards to exclude from public schools alien children who were not legally admitted to the United States, the Court determined that an intermediate level of scrutiny was appropriate and found that the proffered justifications did not sustain the classification.29 Inasmuch as it was clear that the undocumented status of the children was not irrelevant to valid government goals and inasmuch as the Court had previously held that access to education was not a “fundamental interest” which triggered strict scrutiny of governmental distinctions relating to education,30 the Court’s decision to accord intermediate review was based upon an amalgam of at least three factors. First, alienage was a characteristic that provokes special judicial protection when used as a basis for discrimination. Second, the children were innocent parties who were having a particular onus imposed on them because of the misconduct of their parents. Third, the total denial of an education to these chil[p.1875]dren would stamp them with an “enduring disability” that would harm both them and the State all their lives.31 The Court evaluated each of the State’s attempted justifications and found none of them satisfying the level of review demanded.32

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by gauge14iv

In the long run that does the immigrants who are working to do it the legal way no good either because now they can no longer be differentiated in most peoples minds from a group of criminals.

Make it easier to be legal, and harder to be illegal. Punish employers who hire the illegal, either by law or by boycott.

This sounds like the basis of a rational immigration policy.

[HM2Viking]

From the UN Declaration of Human Rights

Article 6.

• Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
  
  Article 15.
  
  
  • (1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
    (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
    Article 25.
    
    
    • (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
      (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
      
      

[hope3456]

[/i]

• (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
  (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
  
  

[/list][/list][/QUOTE

As for mothers and children being entitiled to special care, does our government abide by this? What constitutes 'special care?' I am not familiar with UN declarations. I'd like to know, because I just had a baby, I'd like to know where, and how, I can get the special care that I am entitled to, b/c I don't feel that I gotten any.

I can tell you one thing, the hospital sure did come after their money and that L&D bill wiped out my savings - even after insurance (which I pay out the #@#@ for.) I don't think I can afford to have another one. I just want to know how these hispanic (non english speaking) women do it - I've seen several in the past couple days with 2-4 children under the age of 5 in tow.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by hope3456

[/i]

• (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
  (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
  
  

[/list][/list][/QUOTE

As for mothers and children being entitiled to special care, does our government abide by this? What constitutes 'special care?' I am not familiar with UN declarations. I'd like to know, because I just had a baby, I'd like to know where, and how, I can get the special care that I am entitled to, b/c I don't feel that I gotten any.

I can tell you one thing, the hospital sure did come after their money and that L&D bill wiped out my savings - even after insurance (which I pay out the #@#@ for.) I don't think I can afford to have another one. I just want to know how these hispanic (non english speaking) women do it - I've seen several in the past couple days with 2-4 children under the age of 5 in tow.

I also want better access to necessary medical care and the right to be secure in my future whether I can work or not. Seems like the illegals get that too.

Fuzzy

[studentmalenurse]

Originally Posted by cardiacRN2006

By nature of being an illegal immigrant, they are performing an illegal activity.

when has trying to survive become a illegal activity?

If people would put themselves in others situation, there would be a lot less problems.