[Tweety]

You're definitely correct the Diploma program has good clinical time. You'll be ready to hit the ground running.

A lot of moving up without a BSN has a lot to do with being in the right place and the right time and the old "it's not what you know it's who you know". My friend got BSN required positions because he established a good reputation as a smart and capable leader as he moved from floor nurse to charge nurse and on up within the same organization. Once he got a management position and established some time as a manager, he had an impressive resume that didn't include a BSN but management positions and a Business Degree and he jumped up to a directorship level.

Good luck to you.

[PMFB-RN]

Originally Posted by Tweety

You're definitely correct the Diploma program has good clinical time. You'll be ready to hit the ground running.

A lot of moving up without a BSN has a lot to do with being in the right place and the right time and the old "it's not what you know it's who you know". My friend got BSN required positions because he established a good reputation as a smart and capable leader as he moved from floor nurse to charge nurse and on up within the same organization. Once he got a management position and established some time as a manager, he had an impressive resume that didn't include a BSN but management positions and a Business Degree and he jumped up to a directorship level.

Good luck to you.

*** The hospital I work at used to have it's own diploma program. The last class graduated in 1988. Most of the nurse managers, mid-level managers and upper nursing managment are graduates of the hospital's diploma program. From where I am it sure seems that being a member of the "old girls" club of our hospital's diploma program graduates is far more important than holding BSN or MSN degrees.

[lindarn]

Originally Posted by PMFB-RN

*** The hospital I work at used to have it's own diploma program. The last class graduated in 1988. Most of the nurse managers, mid-level managers and upper nursing managment are graduates of the hospital's diploma program. From where I am it sure seems that being a member of the "old girls" club of our hospital's diploma program graduates is far more important than holding BSN or MSN degrees.

But it is not like that in areas where there are BSN programs. It is a must to have at least a BSN for a management position. I remember the hospital where I graduated from and worked after graduation. It was the same thing. All of the managers and head nurses were graduates of the diploma program and they ran it like the Mafia. It was awful. They has no management experience and it showed. It will change in your hospital as more and more nurses are hired that have BSNs and they go after the management positons.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

[Pageantnurse]

I understand the varying points of view. I dont appreciate the way that SOME BSN MSN etc nurses look down upon non BSN nurses. I went fron CNA to LPN to RN and it has benefited me more than I could have imagined. There are prejudices of all kinds that i have seen from every angle and I firmly believe in my heart that if we start this then the next thing will be WHERE did you go to school ? and What certifications do you have ? IT WILL NOT STOP. People talk about other profession such as doctors. We will absolutely become like them with all of the snobbery, seperatism, and elitism that they have as an integral part of their profession. We used to be a close knit sisterhood and later brotherhood. Now I think that many of us are striving to move us toward a homogenized reflection of what we see as greener grass. The grass is greener where you water and fertilize it.

[PMFB-RN]

But it is not like that in areas where there are BSN programs.

*** There are several BSN programs in the area, including on at the hospital. It replaced the diploma program.

It is a must to have at least a BSN for a management position.

*** DO people get management jobs with just a BSN? AT other hospitals I have worked managers seemed to have MSNs mostly.

I remember the hospital where I graduated from and worked after graduation. It was the same thing. All of the managers and head nurses were graduates of the diploma program and they ran it like the Mafia. It was awful. They has no management experience and it showed.

*** I think out unit managers do a good job but they do run it like the mafia. I think those above them in the department head jobs do not do a good job. IMO

It will change in your hospital as more and more nurses are hired that have BSNs and they go after the management positons.

*** Currently BSN prepared nurse outnumber associates and diploma RNs in my hospital about 3 to 1 according to the Magnet meeting I went to recently. In my SICU nurses with MSNs (9 out or 54) out number associates degree RNs (7 out of 54). Still a few diploma RNs with the rest being BSNs.
don't disagree with you that a bachelors degree should be required of RNs. I just don't think it should HAVE to be a BSN but rather a BSN or one of the more useful and applicable 4 year degrees should meet the requirement.

[jjjoy]

In my ideal world, getting professional nursing license would be similar to becoming a CPA or teacher. A bachelor's degree AND certification/licensure coursework.

All nursing programs would require a bachelor's degree and specific pre-nursing coursework such as A&P, microbio, psych, etc. A pre-nursing major, like a pre-med major, would complete all pre-reqs as part of their undergrad degree.

Nursing school itself would also be different. One year would qualify a person as a level-1 professional nurse (medication administration, nursing assessment, common disease processes, common medications, health maintenance, life cycle health issues). Clinicals would be in long term care (geriatrics) and community health (children, lifestyle issues). For those planning to work in acute care though, an additional year of school would focus solely on hospital nursing - Level 2 nursing (or some other special designation). Well, these are just thoughts.

But I realize that my ideal world doesn't exist. If something like that actually took off, I imagine hospitals would lobby for the right to replace nurses with techs who didn't require all that education and wouldn't demand as high of wages. And nurses who think that requiring a bachelor's degree for nursing is overkill and would unnecessarily restrict too many potential nurses from entering the field would also be against such an idea.

[NexLvlDad]

If an individual can pass the NCLEX and perform adequately, who cares if the individual holds a BSN, ADN or a diploma. I don't think nursing is such the disenfranchised profession in healthcare because the perception is that a nurse brings 1 year of school preparation. To help the profession there has to be more pragmatic challenges to tackle that will actually result in improved conditions, treatment and respect of nurses throughout healthcare. What's interesting is how difficult it is to enter and endure law school to become a lawyer and yet any one without a law degree or any other educational preparation can sit for the bar exam and if passed can practice law.

[kjetski]

I am seeing a theme here and it is business as usual.

Who is funding the junkets/seminars for our legislatures? For profit schools. Follow the money.

[orionquilts]

If my research is correct, North Dakota already requires a BSN to practice. My nursing instructors informed us this week that in 2012, Washington State will require BSN degrees to practice. A grandfather clause will be in effect. Personally, if we wanted to become a "profession" this is what has to happen. Nurses have wanted to be recognized for the professionals that we are. I don't know if this is the best first step, but it is happening. I will complete my ADN soon. I would be grandfathered in, but I want my BSN for personal reasons. Hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride!

[emtb2rn]

Originally Posted by orionquilts

If my research is correct, North Dakota already requires a BSN to practice. My nursing instructors informed us this week that in 2012, Washington State will require BSN degrees to practice.

Nope, ND does not require a BSN to practice. The ND BON lists both bachelors and associates programs as approved to practice in the state.

I cannot find anything about a mandatory BSN in Washington by 2012. I searched the Washington BON, the state legislative website and the Washington State Nurses Association. Nothing. I would suggest asking your instructors where they got that information. Ya know, cite the source....