[tferdaise]

One thing I have noticed with this subject is, most of the people who are argueing against the entry point as a BSN is a very emotional issue. When emotion is brought into, rational thinking goes out the window. I see people assuming what was written, then twisting the words around... But, times are changing in the nursing world. In the last 10 yrs it has changed more so then every before and with this change, well come a change in the education...

Originally Posted by ANPFNPGNP

Please read the posting above, this must be where you're getting the info on the "single" mothers. You know what? I agree with this poster 100% I too, am sick of the nursing profession being the "welfare" of professions. I don't see any other profession lowering their educational standards to an Associate's degree, so it will be more convenient, affordable, attainable, etc., etc., etc.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

Originally Posted by PMFB-RN

*** There is no nursing shortage. As has been pointed out here many, many times, if one looks at the number of licensed RN on state rolls there are more than enough to fill every nursing position. While some of those nurses would not go to work in nursing no matter what, they are retired, stay at home moms, disabled etc. most are simply working in other fields. There is no shortage of nurses, just a shortage of nurses willing to work under current working condition and pay.

Absolutely correct. Anytime any nurse talks about "moving up" the ladder and getting a BSN, it's always with the goal of getting away from the bedside. Conditions for bedside nurses are not good and whether they have an ADN or BSN won't change that, because the system as it is works just fine for those in power.

But that's a topic for another thread.

[MassED]

Originally Posted by PMFB-RN

*** There is no nursing shortage. As has been pointed out here many, many times, if one looks at the number of licensed RN on state rolls there are more than enough to fill every nursing position. While some of those nurses would not go to work in nursing no matter what, they are retired, stay at home moms, disabled etc. most are simply working in other fields. There is no shortage of nurses, just a shortage of nurses willing to work under current working condition and pay.

the nursing job vacancies are not being filled, for whatever reason leads to (you guessed it) a shortage.

BTW, you posted that BSN courses differ a little from ADN programs. Why, yes, they do. Allow me to provide you with a little well-needed info here:

My ADN program: pre-req's were Micro, Chemistry, A&P, Developmental psych, intro to nursing, as well as all of the other standard English, math, etc.

The actual program was all of the usuals.. ob/gyn, cardiac, nutrition, pharmacology, GI, on and on and on for every body system.

My BSN curriculum:

NUR 3805 - Professional Roles and Dimensions of Nursing Practice
NUR 3125 – Pathophysiology
NUR 3655 – Nursing in Multicultural Society
NUR 3066C - Health Assessment and Physical Appraisal
NUR 3826 – Legal and Ethical Aspects of Nursing
NUR 4606 – Nursing of Family Theory
NUR 4606L – Nursing of Family Practicum
NUR 4165 – Intro to Nursing Research
NUR 4636 – Community Health Nursing Theory
NUR 4636L – Community Health Practicum
NUR 4835 – Leadership Theory
NUR 4935L – Leadership Practicum
NUR - Nursing Elective

These courses were not part of my ADN program and are quite standard with many BSN programs. It differs from the ADN graduate, in that at the baccalaureate level, nursing education is directed towards enabling students to develop their roles as 1) providers of care, 2) designers, managers, and coordinators of care, and 3) members of the profession of nursing.

With a RN-BSN program, the goals are:
1) to expand the use of the nursing process,
2) expand the implementation of the nursing process,
3) utilize effective oral and written communication,
4) apply appropriate management and leadership skills,
5) evaluate research findings,
6) demonstrate accountability, and lastly
7) to demonstrate a continued commitment for lifelong learning.

[MassED]

Originally Posted by Angie O'Plasty, RN

Absolutely correct. Anytime any nurse talks about "moving up" the ladder and getting a BSN, it's always with the goal of getting away from the bedside. Conditions for bedside nurses are not good and whether they have an ADN or BSN won't change that, because the system as it is works just fine for those in power.

But that's a topic for another thread.

you're right that whether it's an ADN or BSN nurse at the bedside, it doesn't really matter. Not correct that all educational endeavors mean you want away from the bedside. That's a generalization.

[MassED]

forgot to add BSN pre-req's, Nursing ethics and Statistics.

[NatashaFromOregon]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

All those "tech" that you mentioned that are only required to have an associates degree are just that - "techs". They generally have a limited job description and limited responsibility. And I don't say that to minimize what they do in any way, for their contribution is very important. However, they manage only one aspect and that one aspect alone. EKG techs do EKGs, Nuclear med techs do nuclear med stuff. RTs also only manage RT stuff.

I just wanted to point out that RTs are not "techs." They are respiratory care practitioners, which means they diagnose and treat under the supervision of an MD.

[Susan9608]

I didn't say RTs were techs. I said "RTs also only manage RT stuff." Totally separate from the "techs" I was discussing earlier in the paragraph.

[NatashaFromOregon]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

I didn't say RTs were techs. I said "RTs also only manage RT stuff." Totally separate from the "techs" I was discussing earlier in the paragraph.

Sorry. They were discussed in the same paragraph so I assumed you were lumping them in with techs. My bad.

[nurseby07]

You know, I may get flamed here, but I have been thinking a lot about these postings.
I have an Associate's degree. I think the posts that have struck me the most are the one about not being able to sell siding without a Bachelor's and the physical therapy assistants having a two year degree as well. I don't want to get into a big argument but my program required everything stated above, including patho, with the exception of statistics. I think that that class is what is holding me back from returning to school. I went through a great program, I believe I am an excellent nurse but it does seem degrading that the entry level isn't a Bachelor's

[ANPFNPGNP]

Originally Posted by nurseby07

You know, I may get flamed here, but I have been thinking a lot about these postings.
I have an Associate's degree. I think the posts that have struck me the most are the one about not being able to sell siding without a Bachelor's and the physical therapy assistants having a two year degree as well. I don't want to get into a big argument but my program required everything stated above, including patho, with the exception of statistics. I think that that class is what is holding me back from returning to school. I went through a great program, I believe I am an excellent nurse but it does seem degrading that the entry level isn't a Bachelor's

You are absolutely right. It IS degrading to our profession.