[ANPFNPGNP]

Originally Posted by suzy253

but you did say that you were tired of nursing being a dumping ground. Unfortunately,
You don't know others....what they have sacrificed and given up to become an professional RN.

I did say it's a "dumping ground," because it is and it's certainly not specific to single mothers.

[ANPFNPGNP]

Originally Posted by lindarn

No. That means that LPNs should increase their entry into practice to an Associates Degree, along with RNs increasing their entry into practice to a BSN. Spare me the sob stories about the single welfare mothers who need a "quick" education to get into the working world to bring them out of poverty, yada yada yada. Nursing does not need to be the "welfare" of health care professions. We are paid, and compensated as such. Along with our image that the public has of us.

Most of the public thinks that nursing is nothing more than "on the job training" and requires little if any college education. I don't care the public thinks that we are wonderful They think we are wonderful because we are stupid enough to work for as little as we do, have no power, and we are pushed around by everyone in the hospital, (as evidenced by the stories here about getting no support from supervisors in enforcing visiting hours). They think that we are just uneducated "doctor helpers".

That image will never change until we raise ourselves to the standards of other health care professionals. Nurses are a dime a dozen, and are used as interchangeable "widgets". We allow our professional practice to be sold to the highest bidder. We allow our professional practice to be "de professiononalized". "Anybody can be a nurse". Just put on scrubs and go to it.

Is that what you want nursings image to be? That is what is being sold to the public by the hospitals. If they had their way, they would de- professionalize the entire professional practice of an RN and hire high school dropouts to fill our jobs. We enable them to accomplish this by not pushing for higher educational levals for nursing. The publics sees little differance in the differant education levels that we have. Not much separates most nurses from blue collar jobs that can be had with a short educational path. One year for an LPN, two years for as Associates Degree and off you go to work? 6 months of OJT for a Medical Assistant?

We have no one to blame but ourselves for this entire mess. JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

Please read the posting above, this must be where you're getting the info on the "single" mothers. You know what? I agree with this poster 100% I too, am sick of the nursing profession being the "welfare" of professions. I don't see any other profession lowering their educational standards to an Associate's degree, so it will be more convenient, affordable, attainable, etc., etc., etc.

[nursebabygirl 08]

Originally Posted by NatashaFromOregon

You sound like you've worked really hard to achieve your successes. Congratulations and good luck!

Thanks Natasha,

yeah my finishing nursing school was very special to me because i lost my mother right before my last semester. It was hard for me to go on.. but i think that i couldn't have done it without support from fellow nurses. I mostly try to ignore upsetting comments such as the ones made by anp, but knowing how hard it was to get my ADN and to have a person try to say that i should be made to do nursing assistant work just because i don't have my BSN, well that really offended me, as a person and as a nurse. I expect better from older nurses.

And good luck to you also

[Susan9608]

My point is, that "requiring" all those entering the nursing field closes the door on many people. I notice that many (though not all) people advocating a BSN requirement are young and probably childless. They probably already don't have a huge student loan debt, either. A BSN is a great option for them. But it is not a great option for everyone, especially in terms of entry level into the field.

I think that if other fields can manage, with the same sorts of issues, than so can nursing.

We will need more BSN programs, if we mandate that the entry point into nursing is a BSN. But, I imagine what will happen is that universities - 4 year - will simply absorb the closest community college programs and have them as "satellite" locations. So, in essence, you'll be attending the community college campus, with the same community college professors, at least for the nursing portion of the program, but you'll be award the degree from the 4 year university. And, of course, you'll have to meet all the other degree requirements.

At least, that's what I would anticipate happening, to avoid losing all those nursing programs and nursing professors. Thus, BSN programs would be more widely available.

I think it would be much better if nurses could come to this decision on their own, rather than have some administrative type decide for us and have to *force* us into more education. How would that look to everyone - while all other health care professionals gladly increase their own educational standards, nurses have to be *forced* by administration to obtain a mere Bachelor's?

[nursebabygirl 08]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

I think that if other fields can manage, with the same sorts of issues, than so can nursing.

We will need more BSN programs, if we mandate that the entry point into nursing is a BSN. But, I imagine what will happen is that universities - 4 year - will simply absorb the closest community college programs and have them as "satellite" locations. So, in essence, you'll be attending the community college campus, with the same community college professors, at least for the nursing portion of the program, but you'll be award the degree from the 4 year university. And, of course, you'll have to meet all the other degree requirements.

At least, that's what I would anticipate happening, to avoid losing all those nursing programs and nursing professors. Thus, BSN programs would be more widely available.





I think it would be much better if nurses could come to this decision on their own, rather than have some administrative type decide for us and have to *force* us into more education. How would that look to everyone - while all other health care professionals gladly increase their own educational standards, nurses have to be *forced* by administration to obtain a mere Bachelor's?

I hear you Susan ; what do you think of accelerated BSN programs?

[NatashaFromOregon]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

We will need more BSN programs, if we mandate that the entry point into nursing is a BSN. But, I imagine what will happen is that universities - 4 year - will simply absorb the closest community college programs and have them as "satellite" locations. So, in essence, you'll be attending the community college campus, with the same community college professors, at least for the nursing portion of the program, but you'll be award the degree from the 4 year university. And, of course, you'll have to meet all the other degree requirements.

Yes, this is a great idea! In fact, it's what's going on in Oregon right now with OCNE (Oregon Consortium of Nursing Education). Seven of the community colleges (mine included) have nursing programs that allow for co-enrollment in OHSU (Oregon Health and Sciences University). Than way, you can choose to receive a BSN and remain at your local college. I believe you have up to 2 years after receiving your ASN to finish upper division courses for a BSN. If I can afford OHSU's tuition (we have to pays theirs for the BSN, obviously, even though we remain on our home campus) I will consider that option after working for a year or so. Or I may consider another RN-BSN program.

That is why I'm grateful that nursing allows entry into the field with an Associates degree. It will allow me to work, hone my skills, and further my education in a way that works with my career development.

And I agree, if they mandate BSN entry, there needs to be a greater availability (locality-wise) of BSN programs.

[nursebabygirl 08]

Originally Posted by NatashaFromOregon

Yes, this is a great idea! In fact, it's what's going on in Oregon right now with OCNE (Oregon Consortium of Nursing Education). Seven of the community colleges (mine included) have nursing programs that allow for co-enrollment in OHSU (Oregon Health and Sciences University). Than way, you can choose to receive a BSN and remain at your local college. I believe you have up to 2 years after receiving your ASN to finish upper division courses for a BSN. If I can afford OHSU's tuition (we have to pays theirs for the BSN, obviously, even though we remain on our home campus) I will consider that option after working for a year or so. Or I may consider another RN-BSN program.

That is why I'm grateful that nursing allows entry into the field with an Associates degree. It will allow me to work, hone my skills, and further my education in a way that works with my career development.

And I agree, if they mandate BSN entry, there needs to be a greater availability (locality-wise) of BSN programs.

Natasha do they require you to sign a contract at one of the hospitals in order to do that?

[NatashaFromOregon]

Originally Posted by nursebabygirl 08

Natasha do they require you to sign a contract at one of the hospitals in order to do that?

Not that I know of. After you receive your ASN and pass the NCLEX you can work...wherever. I think some people (this is a very new program) are just going to continue to the BSN, some people will maybe work for a while and return to get their BSN within 2 years, and some will just stay with their ASN. Just depends. You are not contracted to a specific hospital because a hospital is not funding or reimbursing you for getting your BSN. It's just an option.

[Susan9608]

I hear you Susan ; what do you think of accelerated BSN programs?

I don't really know enough about accelerated BSN programs to have an educated opinion on them. I suppose, like anything else, it would depend on the quality of the program being offered.

I think one of the most wonderful things that could happen, that, is that if nurses decided for ourselves to raise the bar for entry point education, we could also decide for ourselves what entry-point education could entail - which would mean we could over haul all BSN programs out there to make sure they covered the content we feel is important, rather than what some administrative types believe we ought to be learning.

Of course, as long as so many nurses fight each other to keep nursing the lowest educated health care professional, we'll probably never get that opportunity, and at some point, some administrative types - especially as consumers have to pay more and more $$ for health care and get more educated themselves and desire their providers to have the highest education possible - are going to *force* nurses into this. It's my feeling that we should do it on our own, when we will have the control over how, when, and why ... and how it's implemented.

[WinterWolf90]

I personally don't know much about the difference between a ASN compared to a BSN, but given the fact that almost all of the schools where I live have gotten rid of the ASN it only left me with the choice of a BSN. I think this was the better choice for me anyway, because where I live they don't even consider ASN for promotions or other things unless they go back to school and get a BSN.