[tferdaise]

I guess my point is yuo have to have an undergrad degree to get into a CRNA program.

Originally Posted by PMFB-RN

http://www.midwestern.edu/crna/

Here is the CRNA requirments..

*** You mean the requirements for one single school.

http://nursing.asu.edu/programs/grad...p/postbacc.htm

Here is the NP program.

*** Again one single school.

What you quote are Hybrid programs, which allow people to GET a masters degree without having a BSN, but what you failed to show was, you really do get a BSN in those programs.

*** No, I was referring to the ADN to MSN programs where no BSN is awarded at all.

Grand Canyon Univerisity offers a Hybrid program, a co worker is in it. She will have her BSN in 2 months, but the difference is, there is no graduation ceremony, she just starts her MSN program the following week.

*** Yes, I know about that program.


But to get back to your points, yes there are programs out there that allow a ADN to get thier MSN, but they are few.

***
"No Bachelor of Science in Nursing degree is awarded as part of the Bridge entry option."
http://www.midwives.org/academics.asp?id=162&pid=56

http://nursing.unc.edu/degree/rn_options/rn-msn.html

http://www.nursing.vanderbilt.edu/msn/prespecrn.html

"Students in this degree program earn only the MSN degree, bypassing the BSN."
http://www.musc.edu/nursing/academics/shared/rnmsn.htm

http://www.hpu.edu/index.cfm?contentID=861&siteID=1

http://www.gannon.edu/PROGRAMS/GRAD/rnmsn.asp

Above are links I turned up with a quick web search to a few of the RN to MSN programs that do not require a BSN to enter and do not award a BSN as part of the program. Most require the ADN nurse to take 6 to 10 "bridge" classes, usually one or two semesters worth then enter graduate school.

But I would love for you to show me a CRNA school that takes anyone that does not have a BSN?

***
http://perth.uwlax.edu/Biology/gradu....htm#Admission
Required a BSN or BS in a basic science.

http://www.nurseanesthesia.org/prosp...admission.html
BSN or Associate Degree or Diploma in Nursing plus another appropriate baccalaureate degree.

http://www2.smumn.edu/deptpages/%7ENAP/
Require "appropriate" degree to include BSN, physical sciences, behavioral sciences and some others.

http://www.rosalindfranklin.edu/dnn/...0/Default.aspx
Any bachelors degree from an accredited college or university

There are lots more but these are a few.

http://www.barry.edu/anesthesiology/...ns/Default.htm
BSN or appropriate science degree. Non-science degrees considered on case by case basis.

http://www.baymedical.org/education/gooding/info.php
BSN or other health related degree, i.e bio, chem, physics, other

http://www.wolford.edu/applicants.php
BSN or related science.

http://www.laroche.edu/graduate/Disc...DisciplineID=8
Any bachelors from an accredited college but must have taken certain pre-req classes.

http://www.excelahealth.org/Anesthes...dmissionSchool
BSN or other degree the program considers appropriate.

There are others but these are what I found with a quick search. My best friend just left for CRNA school this week. He has an ADN and a BS in biology. and will graduate CRNA school with a MS in biology.

[PMFB-RN]

Originally Posted by tferdaise

I guess my point is yuo have to have an undergrad degree to get into a CRNA program.

*** You can't make that point.
I already made that point way back in post #772 when I said this:
"You don't need it (it being a BSN) to go to grad school. CRNA requires a BS or BA but many schools accept degrees other than BSN."

You then asked for links to schools that did not require a BSN and I provided a bunch of them.

Everybody knows that the accrediting body for CRNA schools (the AANA) requires a bachelors degree. It does not require that degree to be in nursing.

You stated that I was misinformed, that a BSN was required to get a MSN when that is clearly not true.

[Elvish]

Please, let's do debate the topic and not each other.
It is possible.
Thanks.

[listener]

Originally Posted by PMFB-RN

*** You can't make that point.
I already made that point way back in post #772 when I said this:
"You don't need it (it being a BSN) to go to grad school. CRNA requires a BS or BA but many schools accept degrees other than BSN."

You then asked for links to schools that did not require a BSN and I provided a bunch of them.

Everybody knows that the accrediting body for CRNA schools (the AANA) requires a bachelors degree. It does not require that degree to be in nursing.

You stated that I was misinformed, that a BSN was required to get a MSN when that is clearly not true.

I appreciate PMFB's diligence and thoroughness. If recklessly or just casually unfounded posts are allowed to pass by unchallenged, the quality and usefulness of this forum as a resource is put in doubt. I also thought PMFB did a good job of simply addressing tferdaise's points without rudeness, etc. Nice job. Now, back to the main part of the thread...

[PMFB-RN]

Originally Posted by listener

Now, back to the main part of the thread...

*** In that case the answer is no. A BSN will not be required soon.
My opinion is that we should do away with the BSN as an entry point for RN practice and standardize on the ADN as the entry point for RNs. Advanced practice programs like CRNA, NP of all types, CNMW & CNS should be at the BSN level.
Only my opinion.

[meyun06]

I think it would be better for all nurses to be required to get a bsn.

[DanEMT]

I keep saying this in conversation, you can't sell plastic decking without a bach. degree why should you be able to hold someone's life in you hand without one. If the level of education increased the view of nurses going through DeVry to practice would vanish. It's a professional career and the mosted trusted career in the U.S. it should require a BSN. I do feel all the nurses already in practice should be grandfathered but new nurses should be BSN at the very least. Also, put away the arguement the ADN/BSN programs are the same, the BSN is greater in scope, teaching critical thinking with a broader skill and knowledge base, not just a condensed program instructing bedside nursing.

[Plagueis]

I know that many of you want the BSN to be the required degree to become a nurse, but I don't believe it will happen. Here are some questions that people should think about concerning this issue:

First, what about all of the LPNs/LVNs? I work in LTC as a nursing assistant, and they do a great job at the bedside and supervising, even without a degree. If a new law was passed requiring the BSN, what would happen to them? Nursing homes primarily use LPNs, so would these nurses be required to find a BSN school within a certain amount of time to get their degree or else lose their license?

2. If having the BSN is so important, why don't hospitals and other employers pay BSN graduates significantly more than ADN graduates? I know that some places offer a bit more, but it's usually only .25 to $1 more per hour.

3. Is there any real evidence that LPNs/LVNs and ADN nurses are harming patients/residents more than BSN nurses simply based on the level of their education?

4. ADN and BSN nurses take the same NCLEX. Why don't BSN nurses take a different version of the NCLEX? Also, is there a big difference in the pass rates of ADN and BSN nurses on the NCLEX?

5. If the BSN became the required degree, what would happen to the LPN/LVN and ADN schools? Where would the students in these programs go, since many colleges now are already turning away qualified nursing students because there aren't enough teachers.

[jjjoy]

I'd like to toss in the idea of RN programs NOT granting any college degree and instead, requiring a minimum of an associate's degree in ANY field plus relevant pre-reqs to get into the program. A person might get an associate's or bachelor's in a general health sciences major if they wanted a degree, but the point would be that to get into RN school, at least an associate's degree would be required. Not quite a bachelor's but moving in that direction.

Once the ASN/BSN was removed from the picture, RN school could perhaps narrow its focus and do a better job preparing students to practice clinical nursing.

Some nursing jobs might require or prefer a bachelor's degree in addition to the RN license. So a public health nurse might need a bach in public health or in any field plus certain relevant coursework in order to apply for that kind of position. They might be hired on with the expectation of starting that coursework within the next year.

This type of set-up would more clearly differentiate the educational prep between LPN and RN since LPN doesn't require any kind of college degree. For those unable or unwilling to get an associate's degree before applying to nursing school, they could go the LPN route and get started sooner, though at a different level. Then later, if they desired, they could get a college degree and then apply for a bridge program.

This type of set up would also put all RNs on equal footing in regard to their RN training, since the RN program would be completely separate from any degree earned.

Just a thought!

[PMFB-RN]

Originally Posted by meyun06

I think it would be better for all nurses to be required to get a bsn.

*** Why do you think so? When you say that do you mean _ALL_ nurses as you stated or do you think BSN should be required of all new nurses and those existing grandfathered?