[pantheon]

Originally Posted by jjjoy

Interesting point.

I suspect that many resist the idea of requiring a bachelor's degree because they feel that if that had been required of them, that they might not have become nurses at all. And that it would unnecessarily restrict others like themselves from acheiving the goal of becoming an RN. ADN programs have traditionally been much more *do-able* for non-traditional students. And the stepped approach that many have taken (eg LPN-to-RN), has made it possible for many to become RNs who otherwise may not have been able to garner both the resources and academic confidence and requirements to take on a 4-year university degree from scratch.

No, a student doesn't NEED a 4-year university degree in nursing to become a good nurse. But neither does a lwyer NEED a 4-yr-uni degree + 3 yrs law school to be a good lawyer, nor does a teacher NEED a 4-yr-uni degree + teaching credential to be a good teacher, nor does a P.T. NEED a 4-yr-uni degree + 3 yr doctoral degree to be a good P.T., etc. Heck, no one NEEDS a high school diploma to be able to read, write, think critically, start a business, get a good job, succeed in college. For various reasons we draw a line somewhere.

I'm not convinced that BSN should be the entry level for RNs, but the reasoning that you don't NEED a BSN to be a good nurse isn't a good reason against it in my opinion. I've posted thoughts previously on why I don't see BSN as entry to practice as a very practical plan at this point.

Hello,

Check out John Travolta! Never even graduated High School but is
extremely successful/rich. He can not only act but he flies his own plane!!!!!!
So I see your point!

[trippinwitchu]

I have to agree with JJJoy. I think mandatory BSNs would only exacerbate the current nursing shortage. Traumahawk99 brings up a good point about the nature of nursing. It can be very rough and especially with new nurses. I think more needs to be done with the promotion of nursing as a rewarding career and maybe more opportunities at the state and federal levels with financial aid to those who choose nursing as a career. I know there are programs available, but not enough. Also, I think we nurses need to be more supportive of one another, and more supportive to new nurses, and stop acting like it is some type of club. There seems (to me) like there can be a lot of in-fighting, as well.

[loriangel14]

Surprisingly I have heard very little negative feedback regarding the change. The new guidelines seem to have been accepted with little fuss. The problem I have seen however, is the type of nurses the degree programs are turning out. My workplace has hosted some degree students that were in their final placement before graduation and we were dismayed at their lack of preparation to be on the floor as nurses. By their own admission most of the programs focus on theory, research and endless essays and papers. meanwhile you get a soon to be grad that doesn't know how to empty a Foley bag, transfer a stroke pt into a wheelchair, or bathe and dress a pt. The last gal we had was watching us do the narcotic count at the change of shift and she said with a serious face ' So you have to count these- what- every week?'
Yikes!!! This was about 6 weeks before grad.

Anyone have any similiar experiences?

All in all the BSN requirement has caused little waves in my neck of the woods anyways.

[traumahawk99]

all in all, i don't see a problem with the way things are. why do we need a single education system? lpn, adn, and bsn programs produce trainees, who are in turn vetted by the nclex. i think it works well just as it is.

the reality is in the future we're going to have to rely less on skilled people and more on technology. there won't be enough trained people, and society won't have the resources to pay them. the demographics marching toward the healthcare system are sadly unappreciated by the bsn only proponents, who tend to bury their heads in their own little make believe worlds.

it's going to get worse. a lot worse. it astounds me how clueless people are to the coming crisis!

it's a jungle out there kiddies, have a very fruitful day .

[sosiouxme]

North Dakota has done the same thing.

There are now more Bachelor's and Master's programs opening up than AA/ADN programs and most have, for instance, 200-500 applications every academic period. The handwriting is on the wall and they are planning on eventually phasing out the AA/ADN in Nursing. This is what happened to the old "Diploma" program, although everyone at the time fought it tooth and nail, and used the same rationale the ADN people are using now - that there would be no way higher education requirements would be able to fill RN need, i.e. "denial."

[tferdaise]

IF this is a true why is it that North Dakota requires you to have your BSN to pracitce as an RN ?

Originally Posted by elkpark

"THE RUMOR THAT WOULDN'T DIE!!!!!!"

There is no such requirement in place anywhere in the US. This has been discussed for over 30 years now, and it's no closer to actually happening than it was 30 years ago.

[sosiouxme]

You're right, tferdaise. And as far as other posters claiming the BSN is "no closer to happening than it was 30 years ago;" they are, in fact, wrong.

This is a primary reason so many schools are now initiating BSN, MSN, MSN Direct Entry, and RN-to-BSN/MSN programs. States, like New York, have put a referendum on the BSN requirement until the time that more university programs are up, running, and graduating nurses at the university level.

At any rate, A.A./ADN level RN's will be offerred programs (there's one at Hoag Hospital now in California, and so I'm sure many, many other hospitals, that encourages their RN's to earn their BSN right on site, through Cal State Long Beach) whereby they have just so long to get their Bachelor's.

If anyone still doesn't believe this, read the literature from the American Academy of Nursing.

[tferdaise]

Im currently a LPN who is back in school working on his BSN (The Univerisity of Phoenix has such a program). Its been an interesting couple of months in school. But what I beleive the real issue is regarding having an undergrad as an entry point into nursing is this, Nursing being taken as a profession, rather then a job. I just finished a paper on this very subject. If you look at Nursing, there are many entry points into nursing, LPN/LVN, ADN, and BSN. Between those 3 nursing there is friction, many RN's think that LPN/LVN are more of a pain in the butt to have around and they should just go away. Most of the ADN's think they are better then most BSN RN's because they get more clinical hours. Its a very splinter profession. I looked at Engineers when I wrote my paper. There is only one way to be a Engineer and that is to get a college degree in Engineering. There are two test that need to be taken before anyone can call themselves Engineer, first before or after they graduate they take the EIT (Engineer in training exam) then they have to work for a year with this certification, then once they completed thier year they are eligible to take the PE (Professional Engineer) exam. This test allows the test taker (if passing) to call themselves an Engineer. What is interesting, the PE test is just like the old nursing test, its a 2 day (all day tests). Once they pass the PE, then they have to get certified in an area in which they are going to pracitice.

There is no reason why nursing can't go this route, if we want to be taken serious as a profession then we need to be educated like one. I trully beleive that nursing today is just spitting people out to fill holes because of the shortage. Some of the new grads as well as nursing students I work with are very poorly trained (i'm not saying there aren't some that aren't excellent new grads.)

The argument regarding that getting a BSN takes too long, doesn't have much merit. If you take someone who has no college credit to a Community college, it takes them 2 yrs to complete thier pre-req's and then 2 yrs to get thier RN. That is the same amount of time it takes for someone to complete a BSN program (with no college credit). So what do we do with the people who have thier RN's already. They can be grandfathered into the new rule. I am seeing more and more hospitals partnering with nursing schools and paying for the RN to get thier BSN's. What I find distrubling are the excuses nurses use to help this all happen. Education is one thing that helps empower people, and people should enbrace education, not run away from it.

[Elvish]

North Dakota HAD that requirement. They subsequently revoked it.

[traumahawk99]

Originally Posted by tferdaise

IF this is a true why is it that North Dakota requires you to have your BSN to pracitce as an RN ?

from the north dakota bon..

http://www.ndbon.org/education/acade..._schools.shtml

sure looks like adn qualifies you to sit for the nclex in north dakota.

bsn requirement = fantasy of those running bsn programs, and *nothing* else.