[pantheon]

Originally Posted by pedicurn

Am not surprised this hospital has good retention.
I would consider working in such an environment where I would no longer have to spend anymore energy dealing with this division. This is the most useless, stupid and pointless division that has been a root cause of our problems ( low pay relative to other professions, low status, decreased control in the workplace, de-skilling of staff nurse role from 'professional' to ' highly skilled' and so on).
Why do so many RN's vehemently argue against further education?
We, as a group, have served as our own enemy

Just one question to everyone. I have nothing against further education so lets get that out of the way. But having an RN and almost completing my BSN, also get that out of the way too.

I don't know what anyone means when they talk about low pay. I've been making $100,000 or more in a hospital as a staff RN so I don't understand why so many people are complaining about their pay???? Someone please explain????? Is it the state you live in or work???? And respect, I've earned it and I get it!!!!!!!!!!!

[pedicurn]

Originally Posted by hpcat

But is bedside nursing your ultimate career goal? That's my question - is the average BSN looking for a career path that takes them away from the bedside?

A BSN provides more opportunity, and therefore choice.

[traumahawk99]

Originally Posted by pantheon

Just one question to everyone. I have nothing against further education so lets get that out of the way. But having an RN and almost completing my BSN, also get that out of the way too.

I don't know what anyone means when they talk about low pay. I've been making $100,000 or more in a hospital as a staff RN so I don't understand why so many people are complaining about their pay???? Someone please explain????? Is it the state you live in or work???? And respect, I've earned it and I get it!!!!!!!!!!!

exactly. i've never had a problem getting work/hours. this year, i'll net 100k after taxes. people generally treat me with with plenty of respect. the ones that don't are just what they are. dealing with the public is far different than dealing with a peer group.

no amount of pontificating from the top (and requiring a bsn) is going to change the nature of this work. people are sick, and you're going to see them at their worst. i am trying to make the best of it. the idea that we somehow "have to all stick together" and things will change is ridiculous.

sure, crazy things happen, and of course i grumble about them like everyone else. but that is just part and parcel of the business.

there are lots of people who can't find work.

[hpcat]

Originally Posted by pedicurn

A BSN provides more opportunity, and therefore choice.

But that's just it, some nurses are not looking for more opportunity because their personal lives are very full (family, interests, etc.) So do they need a BSN too?

I'm in favor of more education, but I think it should be a choice, depending on your career goals.

[traumahawk99]

anytime you're talking about a high paying job off the floor, the competition is going to be high. the reason there are so many bsn's not working as managers, etc.. is because there simply aren't enough slots at that position. manager jobs are not going to be given to 23 year olds when there are so many with years of experience wanting those same jobs.

as a night traveler, i make more $$ than most managers, with none of the headaches regarding who is the don, who is the ceo, etc.... easier for me to duck the politics completely and just do the next shift. a bsn wouldn't be worth anything to me. when i was on staff, they paid me the same differential they paid the bsn's because i had a bachelor's degree in another discipline.

let's say you've got an asn and a b.s. in business.... that would merit at least the same consideration for managerial jobs. there are many ways to skin a cat.

[hpcat]

Originally Posted by traumahawk99

when i was on staff, they paid me the same differential they paid the bsn's because i had a bachelor's degree in another discipline.

let's say you've got an asn and a b.s. in business.... that would merit at least the same consideration for managerial jobs. there are many ways to skin a cat.

I'm glad to hear that, I have a BA in social/behavioral sciences, and I want to go into psych nursing. I would hope that my BA counts for something since I have much more psychology/sociology education than a BSN!

[traumahawk99]

Originally Posted by hpcat

I'm glad to hear that, I have a BA in social/behavioral sciences, and I want to go into psych nursing. I would hope that my BA counts for something since I have much more psychology/sociology education than a BSN!

what will probably help you more than anything else at this point is some sort of professional certification. for example, let's say you work as a psych nurse for 2 years, then probably there is some sort of certifcation you can get for this after you get the experience. that's the direction i'd look. for you, i'd have to say a bsn would also have no addtional value. you could go directly to a master's program at some level if you really want to do more education.

i'm flirting with the idea of getting an mba, though i'm also looking at the idea of starting a healthcare related business, after i get together an extra 100k or so for a war chest.

[Ruffles 1]

I don't think there is anything wrong with getting further education, if the pay can keep up with what nurses have to pay to further their education. There are more opportunities for BSN nurses but you will be taking them away from the bedside because the pay is not worth it to stay in the hospital setting thus a nursing shortage at the bedside.

[kcochrane]

My last paper with my initial nursing class for my bridge to RN is on this subject and this thread has been very useful..thanks everyone.

[Susan9608]

My thoughts about why a BSN is a good thing for nursing are these. Almost every other medical professional, with the exception of RTs, I believe, require that their professionals have at least a bachelors - if not more, to enter into the profession. This has been discussed time and time again.

I think the important distinction here is that with very few exceptions, nurses can and do carry out most of the services other disciples provide. RTs, for example. In some hospitals, or even in some units within hospitals, there are no RTs. Or perhaps, there are only a few, who come in to set up vents or do treatment planning. The nurse is then the one responsible for carrying out all the treatments, from CPT to nebulizers to suctioning, what have you. The same thing with OT/PT/ST - some hospitals, particularly in smaller communities, don't have these services, and rely on the nurses to carry out these functions. And the same with dietitians - nurses are often the ones helping doctors to figure out a patient's caloric needs and do diet planning or diet education.

A nurse is capable of doing most - not all, but most - of these things that these other disciplines do within the context of inpatient treatment. Yet, our educational requirement is significantly lower and often times our pay is significantly lower as well. I know some nurses here have posted that they make well over $100,000 a year, but I don't think that's the norm. I don't want to have to work over time or swing shift or night shift in order to make decent money. I want to work my 3 12-hour shifts (day shifts) a week and make more than $50,000 a year, after taxes. Currently, after taxes and my insurance benefits, I take home about $45,000.

I know that in my particular hospital, the PTs, OTs, STs, and dietitians make significantly more $$ than I and do a lot less work than I do. And I think it's related to education. They all have a standardized education level, so they can demand a higher pay rate. There isn't this argument, "Well, some of you guys only have a 2 year degree and some of you have a masters, so we're only going to pay for the least common denominator."

That's one factor.

I also think that if nurses could all get behind the idea that a BSN would be a good standardized point of entry nursing education, then the course content could be changed to make it seem more "worthwhile" to pursue in terms of clinical hours or expanded, beyond the bedside knowledge. But when nursing is so divided over the issue of whether or not a BSN should even exist, what motivation is there to even improve the existing content at all?

I don't understand why nurses, who have to fight so many other people for so many things, insist on fighting with each other or why they want to hold each other back. Why would anyone look at more education and see it as a bad thing for any profession? I have not yet seen any argument that doesn't come across as just defensive and petulant and petty. Why not put nursing on par with some of these other professions out there? We all know that nurses can - and DO - run circles around them anyways. Why not finally making others realize it as well?