[hpcat]

Originally Posted by Elvish

Ahem....there are plenty of us with BSN behind our names at the bedside taking care of patients.

But is bedside nursing your ultimate career goal? That's my question - is the average BSN looking for a career path that takes them away from the bedside?

[Ruffles 1]

I agree with hpcat, if you want to get away from bedside nursing(which has a shortage related to the baby boomer generation) then get your BSN but not everyone can be charge nurses or managers.

[traumahawk99]

Originally Posted by hpcat

But is bedside nursing your ultimate career goal? That's my question - is the average BSN looking for a career path that takes them away from the bedside?

i have no problem at all with this as a motivation for getting a bsn, if that's what one wants to do. it's just the part where it becomes required to be a bedside nurse that i am tooth and nail opposed to.

if folks find this as a divisive topic, remember.. it's being pushed by those in the university system. if this thread were entitled "should i get a bsn?" or "opportunities for bsn educated nurses" ..... i wouldn't be commenting.

[Ruffles 1]

I think you are right, the universities are pushing to get more money for their instiutions. Where are they going to find nurses who can teach other nurses, when they are not willing to pay the instructors?

[traumahawk99]

i think we all need to remember that this is a business that chews people up and spits them out. how long does the average nurse last on the floor? virually everyone wants off the floor after a couple of years.

while society does need bedside nurses, it's not the education system that is failing to provide them. it's the fact that this is just such hard work at the bedside that encourages people to pursue easier careers after they become nurses. it doesn't help that the demographics of newer nurses tends to be younger females, who have families, etc.. so i see retention as the issue.

a better question is whether the nature of the business can be changed to where it's just not so darn miserable, within parameters that society can afford. i don't really think it can. dealing with sick people and their families is tough no matter how you cut it. one has to but look at what night shifts pay to realize that as a commodiity, it's pretty hard to find vertical people with nursing licenses who want to work those shifts.

add a bsn requirement on this, and there simply won't be enough nurses to avert a national health care disaster. it's a moot point, since it certainly won't happen in my lifetime.

[jjjoy]

Originally Posted by Ruffles 1

I agree with hpcat, if you want to get away from bedside nursing(which has a shortage related to the baby boomer generation) then get your BSN but not everyone can be charge nurses or managers.

Getting a BSN isn't even about becoming a charge nurse or manager. The charge nurse role is often just a rotated routine role filled at times by all unit nurses. Unit managers generally deal with staffing and budgeting. These are not topics necessarily covered in a BSN program. A few BSNs may get into hospital administration, but there are very few such roles out there at that level. And I'd think an MBA plus RN experience would be a lot more useful.

So where do BSNs go that don't stay at the bedside? A small number go into public health nursing, school nursing, etc. BSN education address those areas of nursing a bit more than most RN program. But those positions make up a very small percentage of nursing jobs out there.

Of course, many BSNs plan to go on to advanced practice, either immediately or within a few years after graduation. Not all follow through on that plan, though.

Many BSNs DO stay at the bedside.

Still, sooner or later, it's more likely for a BSN to leave the bedside. Unlike RNs without a bachelor's degree, the BSN (or RN with a bachelor's degree) has more opportunity to find a different job with middle income pay. Which in my opinion is why a change to BSN for entry as things currently stand would make the 'nursing shortage' worse.

BSNs have more opportunity to land a job in case management, phone triage, and other insurance company related roles. Such companies usually prefer if not require a bachelor's degree. Why? Because any employee at that pay level is required to have a bachelor's degree! Since those positions are usually easy to fill compared to bedside jobs, they can ask for the added education, whether or not it's absolutely necessary to functioning in the job.

BSNs are also qualified for any job that requires a bachelor's degree so they also have more opportunities for non-nursing jobs. Having a background in health care AND a bachelor's degree of any type, opens many more doors.

[hpcat]

Originally Posted by Ruffles 1

I think you are right, the universities are pushing to get more money for their instiutions. Where are they going to find nurses who can teach other nurses, when they are not willing to pay the instructors?

Here's a problem I have - RN to BSN programs I am looking into:

BSN Program #1 - University of Pittsburgh, one of the top 10 nursing schools in the USA - I can get my BSN after about 19 credits then proceed into my MSN program & specialize. Expensive school. I think they have clinical courses, not sure how many. No on-line program.

BSN Program #2 - local state university, cheaper tuition - part time would take about 5 years because they make up their $ for their cheaper tuition by adding more theoretical courses. Can apply to MSN program (general, no specialty) - same number of credits. Can do online but need to do four clinicals.

BSN Program #3 - Local "easy" BSN according to my current professors. 3 years part time, one night a week, no clinical courses. No online, classroom only. Costs 2x the state school.

BSN Program #4 - on-line school with allegedly good reputation. Never set foot in a classroom. Outrageously expensive.

All of these programs get me a BSN.

[jjjoy]

Originally Posted by hpcat

Here's a problem I have - RN to BSN programs I am looking into:

BSN Program #1 - University of Pittsburgh, one of the top 10 nursing schools in the USA - I can get my BSN after about 19 credits then proceed into my MSN program & specialize. Expensive school. I think they have clinical courses, not sure how many. No on-line program.

BSN Program #2 - local state university, cheaper tuition - part time would take about 5 years because they make up their $ for their cheaper tuition by adding more theoretical courses. Can apply to MSN program (general, no specialty) - same number of credits. Can do online but need to do four clinicals.

BSN Program #3 - Local "easy" BSN according to my current professors. 3 years part time, one night a week, no clinical courses. No online, classroom only. Costs 2x the state school.

BSN Program #4 - on-line school with allegedly good reputation. Never set foot in a classroom. Outrageously expensive.

All of these programs get me a BSN.

Kinda crazy, huh? It would be one thing if the more expensive schools had the exact same content, but just more conveniently available (thus more expensive). But when the content is different even while the degree is the same, something's wrong!

[hpcat]

Originally Posted by jjjoy

Kinda crazy, huh? It would be one thing if the more expensive schools had the exact same content, but just more conveniently available (thus more expensive). But when the content is different even while the degree is the same, something's wrong!

That's exactly it - it's crazy that there's so much variety in programs.

My work ethic tells me to pick the meatier, harder programs. My desire to have a life tells me to take the easy way out.

[pedicurn]

Originally Posted by *ac*

OK, but I'm telling you that one large hospital is already absolutely requiring it, no exceptions. And they don't have many openings, either.

Am not surprised this hospital has good retention.
I would consider working in such an environment where I would no longer have to spend anymore energy dealing with this division. This is the most useless, stupid and pointless division that has been a root cause of our problems ( low pay relative to other professions, low status, decreased control in the workplace, de-skilling of staff nurse role from 'professional' to ' highly skilled' and so on).
Why do so many RN's vehemently argue against further education?
We, as a group, have served as our own enemy