[txspadequeen921]

They don't have many openings now but they will in 2012....

Originally Posted by *ac*

OK, but I'm telling you that one large hospital is already absolutely requiring it, no exceptions. And they don't have many openings, either.

[*ac*]

Originally Posted by txspadequeen921

They don't have many openings now but they will in 2012....

I think you misunderstood me. One hospital is already NOT hiring anyone with less than a BSN. An ASN CANNOT get an interview at that hospital. That hospital is having no trouble filling all their positions, either, as they have a very good reputation.

MY hosptal says all ASN's must bridge to BSN by 2012. They will pay for it, paid time off for class, etc. It's a huge push.

My whole point is that this is not coming from State BON's, it's coming directly from the hospitals. It's not a matter of "grandfathering in" or changing NCLEX requirements. Who knows if hospitals be able to maintain it, but if the demand shrinks for ASN's it will become a moot point.

[twotrees2]

Originally Posted by *ac*

I think you misunderstood me. One hospital is already NOT hiring anyone with less than a BSN. An ASN CANNOT get an interview at that hospital. That hospital is having no trouble filling all their positions, either, as they have a very good reputation.

MY hosptal says all ASN's must bridge to BSN by 2012. They will pay for it, paid time off for class, etc. It's a huge push.

My whole point is that this is not coming from State BON's, it's coming directly from the hospitals. It's not a matter of "grandfathering in" or changing NCLEX requirements. Who knows if hospitals be able to maintain it, but if the demand shrinks for ASN's it will become a moot point.

many places have done that in the past in regards to lpns and even cnas cutting them out and only using rns - or only using rns and lpns - but they alwasy bring the jobs back eventually. and it doesnt last long - five yrs down the road and they end up changing thier ideals as they cant keep what they have -

if that hopsital or your does well with it - good for them- i dont think the few who will do this will end up making a big difference to the rest of us. - so we just dont go and apply there lol. i dont see the demand for adns shrinking - really - especially since bsns tend to want higher pay rates for the same jobs - adns will keep being aorund if anything because they demand less than many bsns. just my opinion.

[hpcat]

Originally Posted by *ac*

In my area, it's the hospitals that are making it happen. One major teaching hospital will not hire ASN's at all. My hospital is requiring all ASN's to have a BSN by 2012.

A major teaching hospital has a major incentive to hire BSNs - they're making them! Good idea, actually.

This could work in areas where there are limited nursing opportunities and lots of nurses - but where I am, the huge number of hospitals alone (not counting LTC, clinics, private practices, etc.) makes it very competitive for the hospitals to get and retain nurses. Although we have one magnet hospital that tried to hire only BSNs or those pursuing their BSN, I notice they've eased up on their requirements and aren't pushing for it anymore. I think it limited their pool of candidates.

[NursStudent1980]

I live in Ontario, Canada and the required level of education needed to write the registration exam was changed to BSN in 2005. Those who were already registered are not required to get their BSN's but all new nurses are.

[pantheon]

Originally Posted by Elvish

I politely beg to differ with you on a couple points, pantheon.

I do not think I am a 'better nurse' just because of my BSN. But I am glad that I have it, because I did get the opportunity to learn some things not related to nursing that I would not have gotten to learn studying in an ADN program. And those things have made me a better person.

I'm not saying that ADN recipients are inferior people in any way. I'm just saying that I am grateful for the things that I learned. So, I do not view my BSN as 'BS', though we did make many a joke about it whilst in nursing school.

ADN, BSN, Diploma recipients - we need them all.

Hi Elvish,

Trust me if I could of gotten the experience that I did in a diploma program but instead got a BSN I would be on cloud nine! Well, we both know all BSN programs are different.

I just happened to not like the one I was in. You know what the best part of the program was? I'm not kidding either. Nathan Lane's brother Daniel was my English Professor! He was as funny as his brother is! We were supposed to meet Nathan like a lot of the students have done but he was doing one of the voices for The Lion King so he couldn't make it. Daniel and I got a long very well, he was fun to talk to or even argue with! In the end we always found humor in our discussions!

So I mentioned earlier what classes I have taken on a thread I wrote earlier today. Well, I wrote where you can see it. Now, I'm just trying to figure out where's the best place to finish my BSN. If they aren't going to take all my credits then I won't go to that program. Because if I had to take Statistics etc., over just shoot me!

Maybe an on-line program would be good. They are ridiculously expensive. So I'll have to see what happens. I'm leaving for Europe the end of May, so I'm not really looking a lot right now.

I would love to know what kind of program you went to. Did you like the theory used and what was it? I would have to take my books out to explain the one I didn't like. I know I would mess it all up if I were to try and explain it!

Also how did you think it helped you as a person and nurse? I'm happy you feel that way but I did not.

I agree we need ALL the Nurses. In NJ where I am, I don't know where you are from but the nursing shortage is REALLY starting to show. It's getting scary. So if they mandate a BSN to become a Nurse I am worried b/c some people just want to get in it as fast as possible and work where there is tuition reimbursement to further their education.
<3,Pantheon

[Susan9608]

geriatric, MD/DD, poor/homeless, immigrants/cultural)

My BSN program did have a specific class on geriatrics and a specific class on community and culture, where we addressed immigration and cultural nursing.

My BSN program also had significantly more clinical hours than the ADN programs in my area.

I don't understand all of this negatively towards BSN programs. From the tone here, why don't we just eliminate BSNs all together and force all of the BSN nurses to give up their Bachelor's degrees and go back and get their associates? Perhaps then, all these poorly prepared BSN nurses would get some respect for their education. sheesh.

[pantheon]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

My BSN program did have a specific class on geriatrics and a specific class on community and culture, where we addressed immigration and cultural nursing.

My BSN program also had significantly more clinical hours than the ADN programs in my area.

I don't understand all of this negatively towards BSN programs. From the tone here, why don't we just eliminate BSNs all together and force all of the BSN nurses to give up their Bachelor's degrees and go back and get their associates? Perhaps then, all these poorly prepared BSN nurses would get some respect for their education. sheesh.

Susan9608, Take a deep breath and try to calm down Girl! There is nothing wrong with a BSN. I haven't read every thread but if you read mine right above what you just wrote I think the first paragraph says how I feel about it.

Listen, I have many friends that went to BSN schools and have great nursing careers but it took them a little longer to catch up to other programs that had more clinical experiences.

When I was in nsg school they recommended obtaining a BSN that's why I took BSN classes along with the diploma schools curriculum. But I got a lot more hospital experience in all the nsg fields than any of my BSN grad friends did. Ask, and I will list them all for you.

Your lucky, your done w/ the BSN part. So now it's up to you if you want to stay there or go further! I wish I was done already but it will happen soon enough.

So what ever you read don't take it personally. You should be proud of yourself! <3, Pantheon

[Elvish]

Originally Posted by pantheon

I would love to know what kind of program you went to. Did you like the theory used and what was it? I would have to take my books out to explain the one I didn't like. I know I would mess it all up if I were to try and explain it!

Also how did you think it helped you as a person and nurse? I'm happy you feel that way but I did not.

I went to a traditional 4-yr college (UNC-Chapel Hill) straight out of highschool. I know that's not an option for everybody and I'm not knocking those who don't go. But that was the option I had and I took it.

I did learn a lot of theory and some of it was good, some not so much. The research class we had was BORING. Ditto the nursing hx class (or whatever it was called, can't remember). The leadership/mgmt class was AWESOME. Most of our individual classes had the theory mixed in w/ clinicals & lecture, so it's not like we had a separate class on it.

How did it help me as a nurse? Well, I still refer back to the biochemistry (they let us choose chem or biochem) classes I took to help me explain diseases to patients, esp things like sickle cell anemia & diabetes. But it helps me in a lot.

As a person? The four years I spent in college, living on-campus all four years, were some of the absolute best years of my life. I loved everything about living in a dorm except for the 0300 fire alarm pulls by drunk athletes. I loved being exposed to different cultures and groups of people; I met friends from all over the world there and that background alone helps me tremendously now in my dealings with patients (we have pts from lots of different places). The general classes I took in the first 2 years gave me lots of knowledge I wouldn't have otherwise had.

Maybe I'm waxing sentimental but I am really grateful for what I had the opportunity to get. I'm sure many, if not all, of the things I learned as a person are certainly not unique to a BS in Nursing - I'm just saying that they helped me along the way as I was getting my degree.

I hope this makes sense.

[lindarn]

Pharmacy, Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy were all once Bachelors Programs. They are now Doctorate for PT and Pharmacy, (after going to a Masters degree first), and Masters for Occupational Therapy. Explain how come we don't hear them whining about being asked to obtain a higher level of education? They made a seamless transition to higher education levels for entry into practice. They are all grateful that their education levels were increased. Why? Because it cuts the numbers of applicants to the schools, decreases their numbers, which by the law of supply and demand increases their worth in the workplace. These are their words, not mine.

Why on earth can't nursing do the same thing? Why is it that nursing cannot accept a higher standard? PT and OT make ALOT MORE MONEY THAN NURSES DO!! Does anyone connect the dots? They DEMANDED more money as they increased their education levels. Nurses sit around and wait for hospitals to just give us higher pay for education. And we sit and accept our co-workers fight to pay BSNs the same as ADN and Diploma grads are paid. There is no incentive for a BSN to stay at the bedside, is there? I shake my head in disbelief when I hear the ADNs state that the BSN grads only want to work in management. Has anyone made it worth their while to stay at the bedside? Do you hear PT, OT, pharmacists, say, that they learned nothing of worth in their graduate programs? That all of the extra classes were just "fluff"? Do you hear them say that it was not worth it to earn a higher level of education?

The answers to these questions is a resounding "NO". Perhaps if we made the effort to emulate these professsionals, we would learn what they found worthwhile in their programs, and how they managed to incorporate the knowledge into their everyday practice. Has anyone though that putting in requests to the schools, about what you would like to learn, and what classes/knowledge you think was useful?

Nurses, in turn, have no workplace control, no control over how patient care is delivered, we have no respect from anyone, and we are easily replaced by HS dropouts, because their is so litttle educationally to differentiate RNs from LPN/LVNs, and nurses aides/unlicensed assistive personnel. We all look like HS dropouts compared to the other Health Care professionals.

Put some effort into higher education before you condemn it as useless. JMHO, and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington