[hpcat]

Originally Posted by pantheon

I am very close to obtaining my BSN. In all honesty it's a bunch of crap! It hasn't made me a better RN or made me well rounded. It's just money going out the window.

If the BSN programs actually taught me something useful I would be grateful and positive. But so far it has taught me not a thing to improve anything in nursing.

This is my problem with the BSN programs now. If it's so important to get one, how about offering courses more about the issues of modern nursing, like special populations (ex. geriatric, MD/DD, poor/homeless, immigrants/cultural), nursing technology, the business side of health care like dealing with insurance companies, community/social issues that affect patient health & access to healthcare, etc. And then, when a nurse goes thru the hoops to get that BSN, offer her a little more than the 50 cents more an hour that seems to be the norm.

My current ADN program could definitely use a pharmacology course (only offered with BSN in schools by me) and a lot more lab skills teaching, so I do think going beyond an ADN will help improve my nursing. I believe in more education and I want to eventually get my master's. But I also think that if they want to make it mandatory to get the BSN, they need to make it worth our while - give us PRACTICAL knowledge and an incentive for the time we're going to lose with our families and the money that tuition reimbursement doesn't cover.

[pantheon]

Originally Posted by hpcat

This is my problem with the BSN programs now. If it's so important to get one, how about offering courses more about the issues of modern nursing, like special populations (ex. geriatric, MD/DD, poor/homeless, immigrants/cultural), nursing technology, the business side of health care like dealing with insurance companies, community/social issues that affect patient health & access to healthcare, etc. And then, when a nurse goes thru the hoops to get that BSN, offer her a little more than the 50 cents more an hour that seems to be the norm.

My current ADN program could definitely use a pharmacology course (only offered with BSN in schools by me) and a lot more lab skills teaching, so I do think going beyond an ADN will help improve my nursing. I believe in more education and I want to eventually get my master's. But I also think that if they want to make it mandatory to get the BSN, they need to make it worth our while - give us PRACTICAL knowledge and an incentive for the time we're going to lose with our families and the money that tuition reimbursement doesn't cover.

Hi hpcat,
I could not agree with you more! You wrote exactly what I wish they would teach us in these BSN programs. I was told I would get .75cents more an hour if I completed my BSN. Now that's a real motivator! For all that money spent only 75 cents more? I didn't think that was fair.

I also think the hospitals should have programs right in the hospital Education Department rooms that are available from different schools. Make it convenient for us and allow atleast $10,000 a year for tuition reimbursement. I hope things change hpcat!

[traumahawk99]

the point here is whether the bsn gives enough real advantage to patients to make it an entry level requirement for the profession. it clearly doesn't. one has to but examine the curriculum to see that much of it has nothing to do with bedside nursing, which is where the "nursing shortage" is.

there is no shortage of people who want high paying jobs off the floor. in fact, there is an excess of bsn's and msn's who want these jobs. so the move to require that all nurses be bsn educated has no footing in reality. who proposes this? let me guess.. could it possibly be nurse educators from bsn programs?
i've never seen any citizen committe demanding this education level from a state board. why is this?

do the people who want to impose this requirement care the slightest about compounding the shortage of floor nurses? not in the least! instead it is all about "nursing as a profession needs to be respected, etc"... just the sort of nonsensical inane authoritarian control freak prattle that it sounds like.

it is the height of selfishness that these self centered "professional nurses" would let their own desires to be respected, etc.. create the real patient hardships that such a requirement would impose. if can't think of anything that is more disgustingly "me" centered from a bunch of self centered control freaks.

is it a wonder that nursing's ivory tower is so ridiculed?

[traumahawk99]

Originally Posted by pantheon

Hi hpcat,
I could not agree with you more! You wrote exactly what I wish they would teach us in these BSN programs. I was told I would get .75cents more an hour if I completed my BSN. Now that's a real motivator! For all that money spent only 75 cents more? I didn't think that was fair. hpcat!

in all honesty, i think 75 cents an hour is about 74 cents an hour more than a bsn is worth on the floor vs an asn. one thing i've certainly noticed... i can't tell the difference from a bsn or an asn as far as work performance. only when someone tells me, do i know what their educational background is.

as a manager, why would i pay more for a nurse with classes in underwater basket weaving (yes, that's got as much to do with bedside nursing as the bsn education)? wouldn't something like a certification such as ACLS be worth more money in a practical sense? why yes, of course! and you can get an ACLS in a few weeks if you really apply yourself. if i am ACLS certified, i have had valuable training that will help save someone's life during a code. that's something that helps me provide the best patient care.

so again i ask... what is a bsn really allow you to do at the bedside that an asn doesn't? and how is it worth more money? and why should it be imposed on entry level nurses?

[jjjoy]

I'm not arguing that BSN should be entry-level. But the argument FOR BSN as entry-level ISN'T based on a judgement that ADN isn't enough. It's that other professions require a bachelor's degree as a minimum to entry even when nursing practice demands just as much if not more skills and critical thinking and complex foundational knowledge. For nursing not to require to a bachelor's makes it look to outsiders as if it can't be all that difficult. Even teaching kindergarten requires a bachelor's degree (I'm not saying that's an easy job either, but it isn't any more difficult or skilled than nursing!).

I think many outsiders are quite surprised to learn the degree & breadth of nurses' responsibility given the relatively low entry requirements (eg intro level science coursework) and the relatively short time invested in formal training (eg a two year ADN program or 1 year accelerated).

Whether required for RNs or not, the BSN, in my opinion, is too focused on nursing as a profession as opposed to focusing on the nursing as a practice. If nursing education at higher levels focused more on skills and application, nurses would respect it more and be more motivated to pursue it. And patients would be directly benefitted by increased clinical knowledge and skills.

There will continue to be a need for nurses to work on the theoretical level and in research, but I don't see that that ALL advanced education should go into much depth on those topics.

[AnneM]

I graduated from a BSN program in 1978. At that time the BSN was supposed to become mandatory for practice in the near future. 30 years later and see what is still being discussed. I'll believe it when I see it.

[*ac*]

In my area, it's the hospitals that are making it happen. One major teaching hospital will not hire ASN's at all. My hospital is requiring all ASN's to have a BSN by 2012.

[traumahawk99]

Originally Posted by *ac*

In my area, it's the hospitals that are making it happen. One major teaching hospital will not hire ASN's at all. My hospital is requiring all ASN's to have a BSN by 2012.

let's get to 2012, where you will see this requirement really wasn't written in stone, and has crumbled to dust. the hospitals are not going to make this happen. they need workers, and they won't shoot themselves in the foot like this.

then we'll be hearing how by 2020 bsn will be required, and so on and so forth. if there were so many willing workers, there wouldn't be travel companies.

[Elvish]

I politely beg to differ with you on a couple points, pantheon.

I do not think I am a 'better nurse' just because of my BSN. But I am glad that I have it, because I did get the opportunity to learn some things not related to nursing that I would not have gotten to learn studying in an ADN program. And those things have made me a better person.

I'm not saying that ADN recipients are inferior people in any way. I'm just saying that I am grateful for the things that I learned. So, I do not view my BSN as 'BS', though we did make many a joke about it whilst in nursing school.

ADN, BSN, Diploma recipients - we need them all.

[*ac*]

Originally Posted by traumahawk99

let's get to 2012, where you will see this requirement really wasn't written in stone, and has crumbled to dust. the hospitals are not going to make this happen. they need workers, and they won't shoot themselves in the foot like this.

then we'll be hearing how by 2020 bsn will be required, and so on and so forth. if there were so many willing workers, there wouldn't be travel companies.

OK, but I'm telling you that one large hospital is already absolutely requiring it, no exceptions. And they don't have many openings, either.