[rach_nc_03]

Originally Posted by twotrees2

part of the problem is there is no welfare - well in wisconsin anyways - its called work for welfare or something - one has to go to work 40 hours a week to where and when they say and you have no choice if you "cant" find a job -( usually its volunteering so to speak at shelters, thrift stores the like but at the whim of the county and they dont care if your in school or not - matter of fact the changes came right in my last semester of my schooling and i early did not pass due to the fact that i was running their schedule and not getting to school classes - i was able to talk them into gradfathering me in with many help of instructors who went to bat to say - hey - you keep making her do this she isnt gonna pass and will never get off welfare ) many are single women and have numerous kids- and cant raise a family go to school full time and work full time and actually get ahead. i have friends who tried but job and school and kids all full time dont mix ( who do you tell you will be late and who will care and either keep your job or get a good grade if you are late or absent due to work all the time - who watches your kids when noone wants to work past 5 or weekends or holidays to watch your kid - or watch your kid when they are sick and that is all sooo true here in wisconsin for sure . ) i was blessed - i had welfare back in my day - raising 4 kids id have never made it if i hadn't - and i went slow cause i was kinda slow in the learning area myself. ( 3 1/2 yrs abot almost 4 for a 2 yr program ) add onto that a disabled child plus 3 others all between 3 and 6 ( nephew and niece i had thrown on my porch) ( plus my 2) - sad that some abused the system to keep getting it ( and for what i dont know it wasn't like it was really a lot of money - even with food stamps we struggled daily to eat and live so that to me was an incentive to get off the crap) but they would - theyd pop out kids and stay on and be keeping on having kids - etc - ruined it for many who may really have been willing to get ahead - they talked of making those on welfare taking depo shots to keep from getting pregnant while on welfare - i wrote state id be happy to do so ( didnt want another kid right then cause couldn't feed the ones i had on welfare ) and it should be made so but they never did - against women's rights blah blah - so now no one gets anything much here. sad cause there are so many that WOULD go to school to get off - if they had the chance..................... just my opinion from what i have been through and what i have seen.........................

first off, WOW. I'm so impressed that you were able to make it work despite the tremendous challenges you were faced with. you should be proud of what you were able to do, and I hope your kids are proud of you, too.

we had several women in my graduating class in a situation similar to yours. some made it through, some didn't. It was hard- especially when it came to dealing with childcare issues. It's hard to expect an instructor to make an allowance for someone dealing with taking care of a sick kid, because once you open the door a crack, even for a legitimate reason that can't be avoided, there will be people left and right trying to get accommodations for a million different reasons. I had to take an exam early one semester because I needed to have surgery- which ticked off a girl who wanted to take hers early so she could go on vacation to mexico earlier. know what I mean?

anyway, sorry about the tangent, everybody.

[rach_nc_03]

know what I'd like to see in this thread? someone explaining how a state (pick one, it's up to you) will fund this monumental overhaul of nursing education! It's only been mentioned a couple of times that you need an MSN or PhD to teach beyond the ADN level, and in some states, an MSN is required to teach beyond the LPN level. And guess what those instructors make? Not a heck of a lot- especially considering the other areas they can pursue for more cash. University instructor pay is abysmal- I have several friends who teach at the university level, and until you're either published somewhere or tenured, the pay sucks. Meanwhile, an ADN could take a travel job and make a six-figure income. No wonder the equation isn't working!

Oh, and don't forget how many clinical instructors you need. I believe the law in NC was 1 instructor for every 8 students on the floor. Even if you're grandfathering in all the current ADN and Diploma nurses, you still have a HUGE population of people you'd need to divert into BSN programs. Will the clinical instructors need an MSN as well?

Even if the states find the cash to pay all these extra instructors (and future instructors will need $ to pay for grad school- I doubt hospitals are going to foot the bill if the new MSN/PhD is going to teach full-time instead of work solely for the hospital), they'll have to make BSN programs accessible to those considering nursing school who:

- can't currently afford the BSN tuition (that was me)
- have college credits from other programs that are too old to transfer (that was me as well)
- have another Bachelor's degree but don't have access to a 2nd degree accelerated BSN program
- can't afford to spend 4 years in a job with flexible enough hours to allow for the demands of nursing school- because, quite frankly, most of these jobs (i.e. CNA, EMT, etc.) don't pay well enough to keep a roof over one's head for very long (yep, me again!)

So...the states are going to have some cash flow issues. Will they increase taxes? Charge more for university tuition? Build toll roads? Squeeze the already stretched public school system some more?

Am I missing something here? Or is this the reason states haven't pursued this?

[Gennaver]

Originally Posted by MBA2BRN

Let me clarify that Social Work does not have an MSW as entry. Social workers can gain entry as a paraprofessional with as little as a GED/High School diploma. ...

Hi,
Well, technically they could get hired without the MSW yes, you are right. However it is actually a very competitive job for such minimal financial reward.

I mean the "licensed social workers" and not just people who work in social work as para-professional. You are very right, I was not specific. I guess it might be similar to the difference between a phyical therapist and a rehab assistant. Maybe. Or the difference between an RN and a patient care tech, ?
Gen

[Gennaver]

Originally Posted by rach_nc_03

...- can't afford to spend 4 years in a job with flexible enough hours to allow for the demands of nursing school- because, quite frankly, most of these jobs (i.e. CNA, EMT, etc.) don't pay well enough to keep a roof over one's head for very long (yep, me again!)

Hi there,
Yes, me too again! Those darn roofs and rent and food and things! Don't even think about getting sick either because time off of work is money off your grocery or bills!

You post is highly valid and one of the major reasons that this hasn't been put into action, along with the strong hold of the junior colleges too.
Gen

[MBA2BRN]

Originally Posted by Gennaver

Hi,
I mean the "licensed social workers" and not just people who work in social work as para-professional. You are very right, I was not specific. I guess it might be similar to the difference between a phyical therapist and a rehab assistant. Maybe. Or the difference between an RN and a patient care tech, ?
Gen

Actually that is not a good comparison considering someone with a BS/BA degree can obtain a license and work as a clinician but a tech cannot obtain a license and work as a RN without the schooling. The field of social work in fact is very unique and is a bad example. That is the point I was trying to make. I do agree, the pay is horrid compared to the knowledge and experience you must have to be considered an expert within the field.

[twotrees2]

Originally Posted by decartes

Ahhh. Now I understand. Thanks for clearing things up.

sorry - i dont always make myself clear - thank you for asking me to clarify and not just thinking i was weird lol. everyone has thier niche - mine isn't research lol. i do know several nurses that LOVE researching. and god bless them cause we do need them - i KNOW research is important - it can find new ways to help me help my residents and it can find ways to save time on procedures to give me more personal time with my residents - however i just dont see me doing it. its like someone else pointed out- we need all kinds in our field and not everyone fits everywhere. i am thankful for ALL nurses wherever they work and am so happy for those that find thier niche as i did. it makes the nasty stuff we go through at a somewhat tolerable level if we can enjoy where we are. thanks again for asking. have a blessed week.

[twotrees2]

Originally Posted by Gennaver

I personally would much rather seek for msyelf than to trust the potential propoganda or biased or overlooked absent-minded ness of whomever is doing the "seeking" it for you or me.

Would you not research if it were your own diagnosis, your family or loved ones? Would you "really" only read what someone else tells you too?

Gen

reading about diagnosis - which is researching it according to you here, is not what i consider research - of course i look up and learn about diagnosis and "research" as you claim it to be - to me research is not just looking up about a diagnosis - i think of research as sitting in a clinic researching viruses - doing clinical trials on diseases and meds - that sort of thing - if you consider furthering education by reading up on diagnosis etc - yes i guess then i do research - didnt think of it that way - to me that is furthering y education and a big difference from research to me. i'm just not into sitting in a lab to do the actual research to find out how it works . and learning or furthering education as i myself see it as you say " trust the potential propaganda or biased or overlooked absent-mindedness of whomever is doing the "seeking" it for you or me." though i really dont think researchers on the whole, though there may be some - are biased or overlook or do it for the propaganda.

do you mean to say you actually learn someone has cancer and go about researching for a cure for everyone or worry and research exactly how it happened so maybe you can find a cure. That to me is research. sorry if i misunderstood what was meant by research- guess i dont see research as you do.

[twotrees2]

Originally Posted by rach_nc_03

first off, WOW. I'm so impressed that you were able to make it work despite the tremendous challenges you were faced with. you should be proud of what you were able to do, and I hope your kids are proud of you, too.

we had several women in my graduating class in a situation similar to yours. some made it through, some didn't. It was hard- especially when it came to dealing with childcare issues. It's hard to expect an instructor to make an allowance for someone dealing with taking care of a sick kid, because once you open the door a crack, even for a legitimate reason that can't be avoided, there will be people left and right trying to get accommodations for a million different reasons. I had to take an exam early one semester because I needed to have surgery- which ticked off a girl who wanted to take hers early so she could go on vacation to mexico earlier. know what I mean?

anyway, sorry about the tangent, everybody.

thank you - yes i do now think i did ok - i used to wonder - but I've come a long way - when my daughter had open heart surgery if it hadn't been for caring understanding instructors id never had made it through a very hard summer lab - i was blessed with many great instructors. i wish the ones who ruined it for others to get the little bit of help i did get, hadn't ruined it for everyone, cause i know many who are stuck in dead end minimum wage jobs cause they just cant do it all.

as for my kids- well - lol - maybe someday . my daughter hates my job ( traumatized at 10 seeing dementia resident abuse dad when he came to get her LOLOL - my son doesnt get why i do it either ( hates to see me bruised and battered doesnt get why it doesnt bother me lol) but recently my grandmother who for 13 yrs has voiced how she thinks i could not be a good nurse etc ( though she never seen me in action) saw me in "action" taking care of my grandfather while he died and i now know i made the right choice - sad to get the acknowledgement on my grandfathers deathbed but grateful for it none the less

thanks again - it wasn't easy and i look back i should be proud.

[hpcat]

I am currently a nursing student on L.I. - I am changing careers at 42. I have a B.A. in social sciences and several MBA credits too. What really irks me is the lack of reasonable programs for those who already have a bachelor's degree in a different subject and want to change to nursing. The accelerated BSN programs specially designed for us are all full-time day programs where I live - who is going to pay my mortgage and bills while I am in school full-time (is part-time work even feasible?) for twelve solid months? So I am going for my ADN part time and then part-time distance learning for my RN-to-MSN program - it will probably take me 7 years to finish.

While I was already planning on going beyond my ADN, it's not realistic to make the BSN mandatory given the existing shortage of nurses PLUS the shortage of slots in nursing programs. This law would make it worse by suddenly creating a large pool of applicants for BSN programs, which are already highly competitive here on L.I. Even ADN programs here are difficult to get into. I had to get a 4.0 to ensure my acceptance!

In order to get the education, you need the educational facilities and faculty. Programs that are affordable and are designed for people who are changing careers or have families/jobs are key to attracting people to the nursing profession. Let's fix this problem before we start threatening to pull licenses.

[ann945n]

I think if all Nurses had a BSN not only will other professionals opinions about us change but as well as the publics. We need public support and need to change our image of a doctors assistant to a well educated individual. Also im sick and tired of MA's and the other sorts calling themselfs RNs when they arent, lets start demanding the respect we deserve.