[Soleilpie]

Originally Posted by daisybaby

I'm a new RN who graduated from a BS nursing program recently. Since there was no state school within 150 miles, I chose to go to a private college (and racked up a boatload of loans in the process). Only one area hospital is offering any differential for BSN ($.25 an hour), which I find disheartening. I was fortunate to receive merit scholarships that covered half of my tuition, but I still have more than $30,000 of loans outstanding.

Of course, it was my choice to incur the expense of a private BS program. Unfortunately, I don't feel better prepared (clinically) than the ADN nurses I work alongside. I spent my first year at a SUNY ADN program and let me tell you, that was a much more tightly run ship- the new grads from the local ADN program are generally looked upon as to be more proficient than grads from my BS program!

If a BSN is required by NYS anytime soon, I hope the state looks into adding BSN programs to many SUNY campuses. Creating quality, affordable BSN programs might encourage more students to pursue baccalaureate preparation.

Good Point! If it's worthwhile, many current nurses and future nurses would probably jump on the BSN bandwagon. There has to be more of an incentive (besides mgmt and research classes, and more ease in getting an MSN) for nurses to be willing to go that route.

[mcorrao77]

Originally Posted by Soleilpie

I know exactly where you're coming from. I’m proud to say that I too have my B.S. degree, though it’s not in nursing. My main complaint about this whole situation is that even if all nurses have their BSN's, they will still end up doing the same exact job that nurses currently do now. It won't change the job description. The same knowledge will be used that is currently used by ADN and BSN nurses today. The only benefits to a BSN are the added management and research classes. Those are great if you plan on pursuing nursing research or if you want to be a manager. However, one or two classes in management will not necessarily make a leader.

I see nursing as a professional job now. Having a BSN won't necessarily make it more of a "profession." It's unfortunate, but the nursing profession does not always get the respect it truly deserves. I feel a lot of it boils down to the environment some nurses have created within the world of nursing. It seems that most of the problems I read about on this board carry a common theme...nurses eating their young or some kind of bullying. Even though most nurses don't conduct themselves this way, it only takes a few to affect the entire profession. It almost mirrors high school and jr high bullying. This is probably why some in other health care professions treat nureses less like professionals and more like children sometimes. If nurses want to be respected as they very well should be, then they must start by respecting one another first. That's professionalism. It's really hard to treat someone disrespectfully when that person carries an air of professionalism at all times. I'm not sure that having a BSN will altogether catapult the nursing profession to a higher playing field though. Higher standards aren’t just about having a higher degree. It’s also about standards of conduct. I would respect a person more who sets higher standards for themselves than one who lacks those standards…BSN or not.

Sorry! I didn’t mean to go off on a tangent. If there were any real added benefit for the entire nursing population to get their BSN, I’d be all for it. That’s why I feel that if any state wants to require a BSN, then in order to be fair it should not be retroactive. It should only affect those students who have not yet started a program.

But, if all the nurses started out on the same foot (BSN), then maybe there won't be so much animousity between the two degree levels. We would all be "equal". Not saying that we aren't now!! We are, but it would the same education levels across the board.

[Soleilpie]

Originally Posted by mcorrao77

But, if all the nurses started out on the same foot (BSN), then maybe there won't be so much animousity between the two degree levels. We would all be "equal". Not saying that we aren't now!! We are, but it would the same education levels across the board.

I understand completely what you're saying. However, I'm not sure that forcing nurses to go back to school is the answer. The cheapest and best way is to have nurses respect one another regardless of what degree/degrees they have obtained. If a nurse wants to create a divide amongst nurses based on what degrees everyone has, then the problem lies with that particular person and not the other nurses. Nurses with that kind of attitude shouldn't be in a professional position such as nursing but regrettably they are and will probably continue to be as long as disrespect and unprofessionalism are allowed to saturate the nursing profession. I'm all for education; I'm just not for forcing it unnecessarily on people.

[caroladybelle]

Originally Posted by mcorrao77

But, if all the nurses started out on the same foot (BSN), then maybe there won't be so much animousity between the two degree levels. We would all be "equal". Not saying that we aren't now!! We are, but it would the same education levels across the board.

That theory is much in doubt, as most of us have no idea what degree one another holds. If we do not know each others' degrees, why would a change in it alter attitudes and behavior.

(And quite frankly, we only care whether our coworkers are good nurses...something that degrees have little to do with).

[NurseBunky]

My mom (whose been a nurse for the past 18 years) said they were talking about the same thing when she graduated with her ADN. They haven't changed anything yet. Imagine..the shortage is pretty bad now. I would think it would get worse if it took someone 5 years to graduate instead of 4.

Don't get me wrong I am currently in an excellent ADN program and do plan on getting my BSN later but I'm not looking forward to taking statistics, another chemistry, and a hole bunch of nurse management classes. I dont ever plan on being a head nurse but I do want to be an anesthetist or practioner. Want not have more RN-MSN programs vs RN-BSN programs?

[Daytonite]

Originally Posted by szccdw

An instructor of mine (I'm in another state) stated that she recently went to a national educators conference and that they were saying that within the next several years in NY it would be mandatory to have your BSN. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

They were saying this when I went to my first California Student Nurses Association meeting back in 1974! And, they were saying that New York was going to be the first to enact it. ANA has been behind this idea of every nurse getting a BSN for years. It's 31 years later.

It's a grand idea, but there are some very practical problems to carrying it out. Mainly, which schools are going to be able to offer such baccalaureate programs. Nursing programs cost colleges a lot more than their other degreed programs. The schools can barely turn out enough nurses now. There are more AA nursing programs than BSN programs, aren't there? It seems to me that any state doing this would be severely cutting off their supply of new nurses by enacting this kind of legislation unless they plan it out very carefully. They would have to deal with grandfathering in older nurses and what to do about people wanting reciprocity from other states. No one would want to move into their state if they didn't have a BSN because they wouldn't be able to get licensed.

It ought to drive wages up real high though!

[Daytonite]

Originally Posted by daisybaby

I'm a new RN who graduated from a BS nursing program recently. Since there was no state school within 150 miles, I chose to go to a private college (and racked up a boatload of loans in the process). Only one area hospital is offering any differential for BSN ($.25 an hour), which I find disheartening. I was fortunate to receive merit scholarships that covered half of my tuition, but I still have more than $30,000 of loans outstanding.

Come out to the Golden State. Wages and differentials are pretty good here.

[RNPATL]

I have to agree that changing entry-level into nursing has been a common thread of discussion for years. Back when I was in LPN training in 1983, they scared us and told us that LPN's would be phased out. Then, after I finished my RN, instructors told us that the ADN level would change and BSN would be the new entry-level for nursing ..... none of it happened. But, does it need to happen and if so, how do we fit all the different and needed levels in nursing that exist today?

First, I am almost finished with my BSN and will agree that there is no major incentive offered by my employer. That is sad, but true. Second, I am really going to disagree that BSN programs are fluff and they add a few courses on research here and management there. Simply not true. My BSN courses have been comprehensive and I have learned a great deal. Is this making me a better nurse? Sure! Remember ... Nursing is a life long learning profession. To hear any nurse say that they "don't" need more education is sad. Yes, in fact, you do need more education ... everyday things change .... technology is advancing and we, as nurses, need to be on the cutting edge of learning these things. Does that mean that the entry-level into nursing needs to change? Perhaps .... but I believe there is a place for every level! LPN's ... a great group of nurses that are well trained .... we need them .... ADN/Diploma nurses have been and continue to be the backbone of the profession ... according to NOADN (National Organization for Associate Degree Nurses), ADN nurses make-up close to 60% of the total nursing work force. 60%! That is a lot of nurses folks.

I think New Yoirk needs to really look at it's strategies for implementing a total BSN entry-level .... while in theory it sounds good ... the practical nature of nursing and the lack of accessible and affordable BSN programs is going to put a real wrinkle in their plans .... the problem here is that patients will suffer from the lack of nurses and lack of care.

Do we need to move to BSN entry-level? That is a highly personal question that we can answer in our own way. As a profession, we need to make some decisions so that young people can look at nursing as a valuable and respectable profession .... perhaps the BSN will do this ... perhaps not.

It is all good discussion .... but that is all it is ... discussion. Wasn't North or South Dakota a total BSN State and then they reversed that decision because of severe RN shortages?

I don't know what the answer is ... but as a profession, we need to be on the same page together, one way or the other for sure!

[natasha700]

I really do not think having a BSN will make a nurse better! I have no qualms seeking higher education but forcing someone to have BSN to practice defeats the purpose. If it would significantly raise the their salary I could see it as an incentive but unfortunately it does not. If one does accquire a BSN it is a personal endeavor that nursing employers don't appreciate. I have a BSN and I really don't see the difference in my fellow co-workers who only have an associate degree we both can function in the same capacity. If I choose to be in a managerial role that would be the only difference I could see and even that wouldn't matter because some people with graduate degrees make lousy leaders.

[natasha700]

Originally Posted by RN34TX

I agree that a BSN is a positive thing and helps you to explore other areas of nursing.
But as far as the social workers and other disciplines who look down on non-BSN nurses and resent us for making more money than them....too bad!!
I'm sure that no one forced them to choose a non-nursing degree in college and the last time I checked, none of them have to clean up body fluids to earn a paycheck.
As far as MD's go, I've met maybe 2 in my 7 years of nursing that are even remotely aware that different levels of nursing education even exist. Most think that there are nurses and aides, period. Nothing more.
I guess I'll find out firsthand when I finally do get my BSN but from what I can see now, the BSN's get just as disrespected and abused by MD's as the ADN's and LPN's do for that matter.
I have yet to see one instance when BSN on a nametag commanded respect for and shielded disrespect and abuse from an MD, patient, or their family member.


And getting rid of ADN's, diploma RN's, and LPN's altogether? Talk about your perfect example of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Knowledge is power and degrees can only help better oneself but the mandatory BSN requirement is by far the small bandaid on the gaping wound of nursing's problems.
Shame on New York.

SO WELL PUT! MY POINT EXACTLY.