[Momto3andNurse2B]

Originally Posted by mcorrao77

The ADN program does not prepare student nurses better than the BSN level. How can you say having less education would be more beneficial than having more? Every other major in college is a BS or BA. Plain and simple. Why is nursing different? And why do nurses always want someone else to pay for them to go to college? Take out loans, get financial aid, just do it. School loans actually increase your credit rating and the interest rate is so low on them. Times are changing whethere you like it or not. Diploma programs are being phased out, the public wants to be taught in a university. They don't want nursing to be a technical program, they want it to be a profession and you learn a profession in college at universities. You need to have the knowledge base.... you need to have patho I & II, pharm, research classes, leadership classes. Also, my university has a 99% pass rate on NCLEX exams.

So, in other words, someone like me, who is 37, with three kids should give up on the idea of being a nurse?

There is one program that is possible for me to complete here in my area. It is an ADN program. I have waited a year and a half to get in after completing all of my pre- and co-requisites. I currently have a 3.76 overall and a 3.93 in the classes needed for my ADN. I begin in August, and I'll pay approximately $1000 per semester for full time enrollment. There are 2 public universities that offer BSN's at a reasonable price, each being about 30 miles away in HEAVY traffic. There are also 2 private universities that are closer that offer BSN's. However, I figured out that it would cost approximately $30,000 and $40,000 for me to finish a BSN at these schools. My CC is very well thought of in the area. I tried to look up NCLEX pass rates for all of these schools, but I don't have the time right now.

I am not doing this because I wanted to make more money, I was making a good living before. I'm not doing it because it is the shortest route...obviously it is going to take me almost as long to get my ADN because of the wait. I would love to get my BSN now, but I can't afford it. And, as much as everyone who is not in my position thinks I can just "bite the bullet" and take out (unnecessarily) gigantic loans to complete a BSN, for me it is not an option. The idea that I should in order to help my credit is laughable. I won't put my family in that kind of debt if I don't need to.

The idea of this thread was not to argue that one is better than the other, just that the argument is not valid for some of us, for whom an ADN is the only choice (just like for some, the only accessible program is a BSN.) And, as far as my future employer paying for a BSN, why shouldn't they? If your employer offered to pay off your student loans for your BSN, wouldn't you accept?

Richele

[luvmydanes2]

Originally Posted by okie2

good to hear from everyone- glad I didn't start something ugly
I know some are opposed to loans- believe me I wish had been a little more careful the first time around cuz hubby and I still owe a bunch- he has a MS though so it's worth it. I think done responsibly, loans are worth it.
Just a note- some of the hospitals here offer grants for the BSN..BUT you have to be able to work at least 30 hours/ week for them while in school and then sign a 2 or 3 year contract after graduating. I wouldn't mind the job contract but having 2 little kiddos and other obligations, I can't put in that many work hours and full time school. That's another reason I'm at the CC. After these support courses are done...the nursing classes will be part-time. I'm hoping to get in for fall 06.
good luck everyone!

hang in there okie..I started out at a cc and would gladly have finished there if it hadnt been for the vocational rehab for veterans affairs requiring me to get a BSN. They refused to pay for an ADN because of my disabilities. I had to get a degree that would allow me to continue to a MSN. I haven't made my mind up but I'm looking into research nursing...but besides all that...I hear it all the time about ADN..BSN and in the town where I go to school it is a huge thing. One of which I am personnally offended by because most of my friends are in ADN programs. From a personal standpoint if I had to pay for it myself I would have stayed with ADN. I find the BSN route more challenging because of all the extra bookwork on top of the clinicals.

[mcorrao77]

Originally Posted by Momto3andNurse2B

So, in other words, someone like me, who is 37, with three kids should give up on the idea of being a nurse?

There is one program that is possible for me to complete here in my area. It is an ADN program. I have waited a year and a half to get in after completing all of my pre- and co-requisites. I currently have a 3.76 overall and a 3.93 in the classes needed for my ADN. I begin in August, and I'll pay approximately $1000 per semester for full time enrollment. There are 2 public universities that offer BSN's at a reasonable price, each being about 30 miles away in HEAVY traffic. There are also 2 private universities that are closer that offer BSN's. However, I figured out that it would cost approximately $30,000 and $40,000 for me to finish a BSN at these schools. My CC is very well thought of in the area. I tried to look up NCLEX pass rates for all of these schools, but I don't have the time right now.

I am not doing this because I wanted to make more money, I was making a good living before. I'm not doing it because it is the shortest route...obviously it is going to take me almost as long to get my ADN because of the wait. I would love to get my BSN now, but I can't afford it. And, as much as everyone who is not in my position thinks I can just "bite the bullet" and take out (unnecessarily) gigantic loans to complete a BSN, for me it is not an option. The idea that I should in order to help my credit is laughable. I won't put my family in that kind of debt if I don't need to.

The idea of this thread was not to argue that one is better than the other, just that the argument is not valid for some of us, for whom an ADN is the only choice (just like for some, the only accessible program is a BSN.) And, as far as my future employer paying for a BSN, why shouldn't they? If your employer offered to pay off your student loans for your BSN, wouldn't you accept?

Richele

I am not saying to take out loans to help your credit. That's ridiculous. What I am saying is that it doesn't hinder your credit rating. And still nobody answers the question as to why does every other major need at least a BS, BA why should nursing be any different? People go back to college all the time. This is my second BS degree. If we want to be looked at as a profession, then it should be BSN only. I'm not saying to get rid of all the ADN programs out there, b/c that's not possible d/t the fact that they supply the majority of nursing students. I feel that there should be at least an attempt to move nursing to BSN while still encorporating the ADN students. And yes, I do think the BSN is better b/c it involves more learning and how can more knowledge hinder someone in their desired profession.

[herenthere]

Originally Posted by okie2

SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah
BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates
major university- 83% my CC - 87%
university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%
university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%
now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!
Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.
I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.
It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.
Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening

I know what you mean. As a single Mom and an LPN I had to make a choice. ASN or BSN. After talking to a large number of Docs that I worked with, and learning that they all said the same thing: "I'd rather a two year nurse take care of my patients because they have more training at the bedside" well, I don't have to tell you what degree I went after. After all, I went in to the field to take care of the sick, not the bank account. Even so, I have found myself as a house supervisor, ICU and ED charge nurse, ICU manager, and as a top health administrator of a large facility. The big bucks came I believe due to the abillity to formulate rational nursing judgements. I don't think that this is something that either BSN or ADN or ASN teaches us. I think it comes from an innate ability to believe in ourselves. With all that said, best of luck to you and don't stop believing in you, because that's where the true learning begins.

[luvmydanes2]

Originally Posted by foxfire65

I know what you mean on the length of time in school with both programs. I have a choice to start nursing classes in Jan. of 06 at the CC, I also have been accepted to a univeristy this fall of 05. I could graduate from the CC in Dec. 2007, I could graduate from the four year university in May of 2008. There is only one semester difference between the two degrees. If I went one extra semester I would have my BSN. It makes more sense to me to obtain that four year degree. I am like you, I am going to turn 40 in September, I don't want to go back to school after I start working, I would rather have it over with also. Unless I want to pursue my Masters later on. It is not that much longer of a program to finish your BSN rather your ADN. At least that has been what I have found. As for money, I will have to take out loans I am sure, so far been receiving a grant. That is okay though. Most people do end up taking out loans to get their Bachelor's. You would probably have to do that if you got your ADN first and starting working, then went back to school for your BSN. I sometimes think the old saying is true, you get what you pay for.

same thing with me...ADN graduation was 12/06...BSN graduation 6/07...which is part of why the VA required the BSN instead.

[pricklypear]

Originally Posted by ZASHAGALKA

I see nothing wrong with making ADN the ONE entry way into nursing.
It is, after all, the most common route into nursing and the route with the greatest success rate at NCLEX - so it obviously prepares nurses better than any other route.

Right? Right.

~faith,
Timothy.

Whatever.

Let's just QUIT making people feel bad about the choices they make. Let's QUIT bashing each other over this. Let's QUIT generalizing based on prejudice. It's so patently untrue that BSNs are less prepared than ADNs. It's a myth, a rumor, and a lie, and I'm sick and tired of hearing it. I can't tell the difference in the people I have worked with. Passing the NCLEX has nothing to do with your school, or your degree - it has to do with YOU.

[Momto3andNurse2B]

Originally Posted by pricklypear

Whatever.

Let's just QUIT making people feel bad about the choices they make. Let's QUIT bashing each other over this. Let's QUIT generalizing based on prejudice. It's so patently untrue that BSNs are less prepared than ADNs. It's a myth, a rumor, and a lie, and I'm sick and tired of hearing it. I can't tell the difference in the people I have worked with. Passing the NCLEX has nothing to do with your school, or your degree - it has to do with YOU.

Yes, let's.

And, I think that was part of the whole point the OP was trying to make (Please, correct me if I'm wrong, okie2!). No one should be criticized for their decision. Right or wrong, I know that many feel the entry requirements should be changed, and maybe eventually they will be. But, for now, no one is more of a nurse...or less, because of their degree. I just want to be a really good one, as I know we all do.

Richele

[ELKMNin06]

Originally Posted by pricklypear

Whatever.

Let's just QUIT making people feel bad about the choices they make. Let's QUIT bashing each other over this. Let's QUIT generalizing based on prejudice. It's so patently untrue that BSNs are less prepared than ADNs. It's a myth, a rumor, and a lie, and I'm sick and tired of hearing it. I can't tell the difference in the people I have worked with. Passing the NCLEX has nothing to do with your school, or your degree - it has to do with YOU.

I agree, I am REALLY sick of hearing this RUMOR also. Everyone wants respect for their degree, this includes those in BSN programs. I have seen posts here by many ADN students and it ticks them off that SOME put down their degree...if this is the case then why turn right around and say something like "BSNs are less prepared than ADN's" or "I have heard MDs say that they would rather have an ADN nurse work with them" that is absolutely rediculous...this is what keeps this issue going. Do your job, do it the best you can and dont worry about what degree someone else has!

[Marie_LPN]

If we want to be looked at as a profession, then it should be BSN only.

I love this statement. The people that make this statement, wow, what a coincidence, ALSO HAVE A BSN degree.

Dropping the degree debate would be a HUGE step up in the world of being professional, and being seen as a professional.

[nurse2be2007]

Originally Posted by ELKMNin06

I agree, I am REALLY sick of hearing this RUMOR also. Everyone wants respect for their degree, this includes those in BSN programs.

This includes ALL degrees not just BSN! LPN, Diploma RN's, ASN's and BSN's they all want and deserve respect. PERIOD!

I have seen posts here by many ADN students and it ticks them off that SOME put down their degree...if this is the case then why turn right around and say something like "BSNs are less prepared than ADN's" or "I have heard MDs say that they would rather have an ADN nurse work with them" that is absolutely rediculous...this is what keeps this issue going.

I agree but what also keeps the issue going is BSN's saying that nursing should have a BSN ONLY entry. I believe statements like that are what make LPN's and ASN's feel threatened to come back and try to protect their choice in degree by claiming that an ASN is more prepared. Obviously both degrees prepare you similarly if both ASN and BSN graduates take and pass the same NCLEX test.

Do your job, do it the best you can and dont worry about what degree someone else has!

Excellent point!

Now for my 2 cents. I really dont care what anyone thinks of my choice, so much so that I am not even going to endulge any of you why I made the choices I made. However, this issue is going to be on going until we stop treating each other poorly and start respecting each other as RN's and not disrepect for the degree each of us chose to get.

BTW, there are plenty of medical professions that require an ADN only as entry. I am not saying RN should be one of them, I happen to like it the way it is. Allowing different entry level routes keeps this wonderful career open to any and everyone who has the desire to become a nurse, even those that dont have the means (whether its financial, time factors, or other issues) to obtain a BSN right off the bat. Everyone is looking at the down side of having multiple degree entry to being an RN but what about the positive side. First it gives our profession diversity. We have nurses from all walks of life and that keeps our profession real to our patients. Second, if we all had the same level of education then we would all be the same, like robots instead of people. Having diversity keeps us real people and not manufactured SAME degree robots. Third, it keeps the work search competitive. Just think, if everyone had the same degree then what would set me apart from SuzieBSN or SuzieBSN apart from ClaraASN.

Bottom line is if we want respect for our profession then we need to start acting like professionals. When other medical professions hear or read (yes I can guarantee other professions read this board) they lose respect for us because all they see is us bickering over who knows more or who had the better degree. Respect will come to our profession when we start respecting each other within our profession.

Take care all, I wish you all well!