[JLam5078]

I have a question. I want to start working on either an LPN or RN, either thru distance learning or online. The reason is to be with my family. I can schedule clinical experiences through a local facility and preceptors. The only alternative I've seen so far is Deaconess. Are there others?

[SmilingBluEyes]

Might want to ask this one in the Distance Learning Forum. I bet you get more help there.

GOOD LUCK!

[nursekhat]

Whatever with it... ADN vs BSN as a clinical/floor nurse, you get paid equally. I still want to get my BSN one day, but I am in no rush....

[Gromit]

I'm with nursekhat on that one. I want my BSN eventually -only because I expect it to open up more doors in the non-bedside arena.

[surfer betty crocker]

I am still trying to figure out why this is such a contentious topic. Driven by ego would be my guess? For a profession that promotes "non-judgement" and "teamwork" and the greater good, why do ADN's BSN's students, experienced nurses all go for the proverbial jugular when it comes to this? This entire thread is one major reason why nursing, as a profession, is not taken as seriously as it should be. Some of you may agree with me, some of you may quote this text and point a big "how dare you say nursing is not a serious profession!!!" finger at me. Nevertheless, the vitriol that is typed here towards others is inexcusable. ADN's are not 'better prepared' for the bedside, despite what many ADN's think. Clinical hours are clinical hours and in order for a program to be accredited, there needs to be a certain number of clinical hours. BSN's are not 'smarter' than ADN's despite what many BSN's may think. Nursing jobs in certain high profile medical institutions require BSN. Is that right? Is it wrong? That is not up for debate it is a reality. What it all comes down to is experience. At the bedside, experience is experience. It is a product of time; time that neither newbie nurse from either program has had. Experience, as a wise poster typed previously, is the same for ADN and BSN-pretty much none! As students you are beginning to feel what it is like to function as a nurse, but you are still protected in a way, by someone else's medical license. In other words, ADN students are just as inexperienced as the BSN student. Why would anyone argue that?

[Jami_Jared]

Originally Posted by okie2

SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah
BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates
major university- 83% my CC - 87%
university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%
university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%
now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!
Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.
I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.
It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.
Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening

Sometimes taking the easier path at the time isn't really what gets you ahead! ADN programs main goal is to train you to pass the NCLEX fast- BSN programs teach you critical thinking and have much more content rolled into a program rather than just the bare essentials that can get you a degree as fast as possible. I'm sorry that the state you are in has poor passing rates for universities. I come from ND where they just lowered the standards for nursing and it comes as a big dissappointment for our whole state. We required 4 year degrees for all RN's and we didn't have the shortages that you see in other states. Our universities across the state held 91% and higher - and we don't have any 2-year ADN or 3-year diploma programs. If people take pride in their education and want to be the best that they can be by achieving greater goals than they should not be criticized. Only in a mostly woman's profession would we try to put down people with more education. If we want to be seen as professionals and we want the benefits of the great pay that comes with a professional degree than we have to have people who want to put the extra time and effort into achieving a bachelor's degree. ADN's would not be seeing the pay that they are without bachelor's degree nurses in the mix. When reading every one's view on this its repetative over and over on how the ADN is easier - less time consuming and cheaper. Is that how we should view education? Go for the cheapest and easiest way to get through ??? Don't think that if the ADN programs dissappeared that the nurses would dissappear....people go into nursing as a calling, or as a caring way to give back to the community. If all programs were BSN programs it would just be a standard and if you wanted it bad enough as a goal then you would just accomplish it! I sacrificed time and energy for my education and set goals at a young age. I'm sorry if in your late 30's you are just figuring out what to do with your life. But take some advice the easiest and cheapest way isn't always the best route. Kind of like taking the path less traveled scenerio?? I don't want to criticize but it gets old having to defend bachelor's degrees to people who just want an easy way out and that have to ***** and complain about how hard it is to get in and be on a waiting list. If you had to choose a nurse to take care of you or your loved one you would want someone who strives to be the best they can be - the one who has the most training and education and good bedside manner....not the one who took the easy way out because it was cheaper and took less time to complete.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by Jami_Jared

I don't want to criticize but it gets old having to defend bachelor's degrees to people who just want an easy way out and that have to ***** and complain about how hard it is to get in and be on a waiting list. If you had to choose a nurse to take care of you or your loved one you would want someone who strives to be the best they can be - the one who has the most training and education and good bedside manner....not the one who took the easy way out because it was cheaper and took less time to complete.

You're entitled to your opinion. No need to start with "I don't want to criticize but............." because we all know what comes after that....LOL

I probably said on page one that there was no BSN program in my town. So to pack up and move, work full time while getting an expensive BSN was not the best option. Yes, I chose the inexpensive community college way that got me working as an ADN quicker.

However, in defense of my education and other ADN programs it wasn't easy. It was NLN approved and to date remained the most difficult thing I've ever done. I passed the same NCLEX as the BSN students at the most expensive schools, the very first time.

ADN, while cheaper and quicker, does not make for an easier softer route. Quicker, easier, ADN, does not equate with poor education.

One of the points of this thread is that going the ADN for some of us, not only was the best option, but sometimes the only option. It doesn't mean that we weren't striving to be the best that we could be, or that we are lazy.

As far as whom I'd want taking care of my loved one, how they got their RN probably isn't going to be as much a consideration is how it manisfests in their daily practice - their work ethic, their experience, bedside manner, critical thinking skills, etc. An ADN fits this bill just fine and can take care of me and my loved ones. There are even LPNs that fit the bill and can take care my family any day.

Let me say again, I certainly allow for your opinion and your way of choosing who takes care of your family. I respect that you think BSN the longer more expensive way equates with a better nurse for your loved ones. I disagree with that. It also gets very old having to defend the ADN. Sigh......

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by hillflower

I am still trying to figure out why this is such a contentious topic. Driven by ego would be my guess? For a profession that promotes "non-judgement" and "teamwork" and the greater good, why do ADN's BSN's students, experienced nurses all go for the proverbial jugular when it comes to this?

I agree with everything you're saying ... it really is an exercise in ego because, in reality, there's often not much teamwork and non-judgement in nursing. All you have to do is read this board to see that.

What's funny, at least to me, is how impractical all of this is. In California, for example, 70 percent of the nursing programs are ADN's. There's no money to convert these programs to BSN's. The BSN program in my area wasn't even taking any new students back when I applied to nursing schools, and that was nearly four years ago.

In California for example, what's more important? Ratios or BSN's? Because if you required only BSN's then you'd eliminate thousands of new grads in the labor pool each year and the hospitals would have the perfect excuse to roll back the ratio law ... which has tremendously improved working conditions.

Next year ratios are going to go down to 4:1 on med surg, etc. and we are the envy of nurses all over the country because of this.

Why would any California nurse, at least, want to screw that up when they're already making the highest nursing wages and have the best working conditions in the country?

This is why, IMO, the BSN argument is so ridiculous. As an ADN grad who will be pursuing my BSN, I'm not interested in giving the hospitals an excuse to thwart hard won victories ... like the ratio law ... just to feed my ego. There are plenty of other rewards for getting my BSN.

[Jami_Jared]

Tweety .....Why are you pursuing you BSN? I am just curious? or nosy??

[RNsRWe]

Ah, Tweety.....perfect reply.