[Marie_LPN]

So please don't keep saying you should get the same pay for less investment!

ADN and BSN should get the same pay for less investment, for the exact same job.

(There, i said it)

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by Marie_LPN

ADN and BSN should get the same pay for less investment, for the exact same job.

(There, i said it)

Actually, there is one hospital group in my area (Kaiser) that does pay $2 extra an hour for BSN's. Although they're the only ones I know of that does.

But, at least from a financial perspective, it still doesn't make any sense to go the BSN route first even with the extra pay.

That extra $2 an hour amounts to a little under $4K a year in extra base salary. But you still have to go to school an 1-2 more years to get your BSN. Where I live in California ... that means losing $100-$200K in extra income over the next two years plus the extra $10K (at least) in direct BSN program costs.

Why lose up to $100-200K in income just to make an extra $4-8K for over the next two years? It makes much more financial sense to go with the ADN first and get your BSN afterward.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by arita2

One question, though--for those who are saying that getting your BSN is too expensive, is it mostly because you don't want to take out loans (as opposed to not being able to get together the money via loans)?

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If you are going to earn the same pay either way, why bother to go the extra and get the BSN?? Personally, I am going to have to do the BSN route because the comm college here has a waiting list that is years long. They don't require good GPA (which I do have)... it's first come first serve regardless of grades as long as pre-req's are met. So, more people gravitate to that given it is less time and effort for the same pay. I have never heard of any other field where techs get as much pay as someone with a 4 year degree in the same field, and it should not be that way in nursing either.

For ADNs who claim they do all the same courses... you simply don't. The four year degree programs require stats, A&P 202, Nutrition, more Psychology, Microbiology and several other courses not require in a 2 year degree. So please don't keep saying you should get the same pay for less investment!

Techs do not make the same as RNs (please tell me you aren't calling ADN RNs "techs")

The cost of the education aside. Many people get the BSN simply to save time. They can get their BSN in four years. And in my cases, as Caroleladybelle pointed out, it takes people almost 4 years to get an ADN degree.

Also as was pointed out ADN programs have to take most of those courses you listed, but for perhaps Nutrition (which a lot of BSN programs don't require either). Those are basic courses required of every program ADN, Diploma and BSN.

The differences in courses vary depending on where you go, but include Research, Community Health, Leadership/Management, Pathopysiology, Assessment, Medical Ethics, Transcultural Nursing. Things like that.

But you're correct, the difference between and ADN and a BSN isn't just "a few courses".

Everyone has their own path, that suits them best.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by caroladybelle

I don't know what ADN program that you are referencing, but MY program required all of those AND MORE.

And please referencing an ADN degree as a 'Two year" degree, when it is not. Most Bachelor's programs require 120 or so semester hours. A standard AA degree (a two year degree) consists of approximately 60-64 semester hours. My ADN program required 100 semester hours - which comes out to over three years by any reasonable calculation. And I know of no ADNs in my home area (4 different Associate's programs) that required less than 91 semester hours.

As one had to require also basic ed BEFORE starting the nursing program, there was no way to even try to double up and finish in less than two years.
It might be nice if you educated yourself about what ADN programs consist of.
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People should get paid what they are worth. If you use your higher education to teach and mentor your patients and staff, then you will get paid more. If on the other hand, you get that education and coast with it, you aren't worth much.

I, with my ADN, teach and mentor nurses, educate patients and put in extra time and energy...the BSNs that work with me sometimes do not. Therefore, I frequently get better pay, preferred asignments.

I've heard you talk about your program before. Frankly I'm a bit dismayed at the current trend of granting associate degrees with all that work. Associate Degrees are supposed to be two year degrees that transfer to a four year institution.

I'm not saying you feel this way, but ADNs are getting ripped off by all the requirements and being awarded associate degrees 20 hours shy of some BSN programs.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by lizz

Actually, there is one hospital group in my area (Kaiser) that does pay $2 extra an hour for BSN's. Although they're the only ones I know of that does.

But, at least from a financial perspective, it still doesn't make any sense to go the BSN route first even with the extra pay.

That extra $2 an hour amounts to a little under $4K a year in extra base salary. But you still have to go to school an 1-2 more years to get your BSN. Where I live in California ... that means losing $100-$200K in extra income over the next two years plus the extra $10K (at least) in direct BSN program costs.

Why lose up to $100-200K in income just to make an extra $4-8K for over the next two years? It makes much more financial sense to go with the ADN first and get your BSN afterward.

As Carolina pointed about above, the time and credit hour committment between ADNs and BSNs is narrowing, as was pointed out there are waiting lists. So if one can start an BSN program and graduate in four years, it they might even beat their fellow ADN students, or complete just a few months early.

But what you say makes sense, if you are only looking at a financial picture, rather than a time frame and the other reasons people choose the BSN route. Some people, especially younger ones might find the cost of an education worth it to get it out of the way. No regrets, but if I was 18 all over again, I'd go for the BSN right away instead of being a 47 year old loser still trying to graduate. LOL All those years of lost opportunity that the BSN could have provided me was a high price to pay.

[gauge14iv]

Originally Posted by lizz

But, at least from a financial perspective, it still doesn't make any sense to go the BSN route first even with the extra pay.

Remember too that what makes sense for one person doesn't necessarily fit everybody elses situation.

Most of the hospitals here do pay at least a small differential for a BS or BSN, over time it adds up.

I did the ASN to BS route. I wish I had just done the BS right off the bat too. It took me 6 years total to do both the AS and BS by the time I did pre-reqs for both, redid prereqs for the BS because they had changed the requirements and the school I went to for the BS had some additional requirements, and the AS alone took me almost 4 years anyway! In the long run it cost me more money and more time in school to do go the add on route.

[Marie_LPN]

Financial reasons is why i knew i would be going for the LPN, then associate's, then onto bachelor's and master's.

Education would have been cheaper to go for the BSN, but, not on minimum wage, so i went to LPN school, which i was (barely) able to pay out of pocket from a minimum wage job(s), but that lead to a way better paying job that i love, and gaining nursing experience to boot. Pursuing the associate's now, because the CC is closer to work and (now) home, plus, a lot of those classes are needed for a bachelor's anyway, so i can take them, in a smaller class setting, in a flexible schedule, and much cheaper in cost.

I might transfer to a university when the time comes, but that's a little ways off. Whether i do or not is my decision, and not for anyone else to plan or dictate.

[Marie_LPN]

Remember too that what makes sense for one person doesn't necessarily fit everybody elses situation.

Exactly.

[suzy253]

Originally Posted by arita2

For ADNs who claim they do all the same courses... you simply don't. The four year degree programs require stats, A&P 202, Nutrition, more Psychology, Microbiology and several other courses not require in a 2 year degree. So please don't keep saying you should get the same pay for less investment!

You must love the diploma program grads then. Mine was a 3-year program and required all of the above courses and more. How many clinical hours do you put in?
And yes....we too get paid the same wage.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by suzy253

How many clinical hours do you put in?

You're being snarly because you know you'll win the prize!