[VivaLasViejas]

I'd probably have gone for my BSN, or even MSN, if I'd been younger and childless---to say nothing of living closer than 70 miles to the nearest four-year nursing program---when I was in nursing school. Life and its exigencies being what they are, however, I had to 'settle' for an ADN so I could get out there and make some money to support my family; now that I'm pushing 50 and contented with my station in life, I don't have the slightest wish to struggle through organic chemistry or statistics. I have no burning desire to stand in long lines and fight to get into classes again, add to my mountain of debt, figure out where I'm going to do my clinicals in addition to my full-time job, or pay boo-coo bucks for general ed courses that have no relevance to MY life as a middle-aged mother, grandmother and working woman.

Besides, I've done pretty well with my two-year degree, mainly because life is an education in itself. I've made it into administration on my knowledge, skills, and street smarts, and I'm viewed as a professional by both the public and my peers. It's just never been an issue. Other than teaching, which I would dearly have loved to do, I don't feel like I've missed out on many opportunities for lack of a higher degree.........but then, maybe I'm just different because I'm older and I make my own rules, or because I refuse to let others' biases stop me from doing what I want to do.

[Suesquatch]

Originally Posted by Tweety

The problem is that if some truly believes that the profession is lessened by an entry level of ADN and says so it's considered devisive and insulting.

I think that there are ways to say things and ways to say things.

I plan to go further in my studies. That does not, however, mean that I consider those who choose not to to be lesser nurses. Specifically, though, I take affront at the implication that the only reason everyone who stays at the ADN level does so because s/he's lazy.

Besides, what are we now going to call LPNs? Not-quite-nurses? Do they no longer belong in our membership?

I don't know. I just know that I am thrilled to be entering this profession with what some people will regard as my little less-than ADN. I also know that I have a bazillion credits but have never managed to collect them in one place to get the degree. I'm now back in school for my fourth career change - outsourcing has definitely affected my life - and have a lot of training and diplomas and certifications and licenses behind me. I have a demonstrated ability to learn and learn quickly and well, and believe I deserve respect, as do all of those older diploma nurses.

My husband's mother was commissioned during WW II and served in Africa. She was a diploma nurse. She was a professional. She was cited for meritorious service. I am very proud of her.

And now I'll shut up and stay out of future discussions of this issue.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by PANurseRN1

Look at how much having a BSN has helped nurses in the Phillipines; they're stampeding to get into the US, leaving the Phillipines with a serious nursing shortage of their own..

The only reason the BSN is the standard in the Phillipines because it is the minimum the US will accept from them to immigrate to the USA. Interesting that we require it of them but not ourselves.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by clee1

Points taken and stipulated, Tweety. It's just the "the whole problem with nursing is that not everyone is a BSN" point-of-view that grates on my nerves. The BSN is relatively "new" in the world of nursing; what in the world did we all do for nurses BEFORE the education industry took over the training of health "professionals"????

I view it simply as this: nursing is an art as well as a science. Not all the college coursework in art history, style, etc. in the world will make an "artist" of someone - neither will all the nursing "education" in the world make someone a competent nurse.

Good post and I agree.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by Suesquatch

I think that there are ways to say things and ways to say things.

I agree and not everyone who advocates for BSN to be the minimum standard states it eloquently.

The ANA has advocates for that standard and states their case very "professionally" in my opinion. Yet many ADN grads refuse to join ANA because their refuse to support an organization that deems them less of a nurse than a BSN.

It is very very difficult to say "the BSN should be the minimum standard for entry level RNs", without insulting someone. No way around it. So I still say if that's your opinion you're just going to have to say it and accept that someone is going to immeidate chime in with the old "what makes you think I'm less of a nurse than you" "a BSN doesn't make you a good nurse or a better nurse than me, I've seen plenty of BSN nurses who weren't good nurses"....well you know the drill. So sometimes it's not the post from the advocate, but the responses afterward that get the thread shut down, but the mob (and sometimes the mods) are quick to blame the BSN advocate for not stating their case in a manner that isn't inflammatory when that is nearly impossible to do.

That's what I was saying.

(I once vowed to stay out of these types of discussions too, but can't do it. LOL)

[scaredofshots]

What ever! An RN does the exact same job as a BSN except the BSN had to take a few more classes like an extra history, maybe an art class, another english, then they only go one more year and learn how to do assessments and write papers. And for what? If it is to get paid more I say HA HA because you'll only get 1.00 more for that BSN degree!

[utahliz]

BSN's have to take more NURSING classes also, not just Gen Ed classes to get the BS. But for many of us it's not about the money. I get paid the same as ADN's. I'm committed to excellence in my studies, my practice and in life. Others who feel the same way are outstanding nurses, whether BSN or ADN or MSN-prepared. I'm told that there is research that shows that BSN-prepared nurses have better outcomes. I haven't taken the time to look for it because changing others' opinions on this issue isn't high on my priority list. However, I'd be curious to hear others weigh in on the research to this effect.

[traumaRUs]

Since there is no standardized entry educational requirement for RN's - we will always have this discrepancy. In the end, its our patient care that matters. The research study about BSN RN's providing better care was flawed at best because the researchers didn't look at nursing ratios at the hospitals, just the educational requirements of the institution.

This leads me to believe that if nursing ratios are LOWERED, the nurses (be they ADN's, BSN's, or diploma grads) will ALL be able to provide better care.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by scaredofshots

What ever! An RN does the exact same job as a BSN except the BSN had to take a few more classes like an extra history, maybe an art class, another english, then they only go one more year and learn how to do assessments and write papers. And for what? If it is to get paid more I say HA HA because you'll only get 1.00 more for that BSN degree!

Everything else aside. I'm in an RN to BSN program that was fully 16 courses, including patho. pharm., leadership, research, assessment, stats, etc. etc. BSN.

The value in the degree is not just the $1.00 per hour. It's having options in various fields of nursing.

It's not for everyone, and many ADNs advance far in a wide variety of jobs.

However, it's more than a "few".

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by utahliz

BSN's have to take more NURSING classes also, not just Gen Ed classes to get the BS. But for many of us it's not about the money. I get paid the same as ADN's. I'm committed to excellence in my studies, my practice and in life. Others who feel the same way are outstanding nurses, whether BSN or ADN or MSN-prepared. I'm told that there is research that shows that BSN-prepared nurses have better outcomes. I haven't taken the time to look for it because changing others' opinions on this issue isn't high on my priority list. However, I'd be curious to hear others weigh in on the research to this effect.

There have been one or two studies, but they were very flawed and the data proved unreliable, so it's an urban legend that BSNs have better outcomes for now.