[HealthyRN]

Originally Posted by psalm

...here we go again! There might have been a "two-year program" but did you include all the pre-req credits? No! There is no such thing as a two-year program, there is a two-year clinical, okay... but no one can be a registered nurse in 2 years, as in 24 months.

BSN's have as their first 2 years of the "four-year program" their pre-reqs...those are the electives as well as the English and speech, Government, math, psych, sociology, biology, ethics, micro, A&P I and II, etc.

Please, can we come up with a different term for ADN nurse?

I have to disagree respectfully. An associates degree is considered a two-year degree. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to actually do it. If you spend 5 or 6 years getting a BSN, it does not mean that it is a 5-year degree. It is still considered a 4-year degree, as are all undergraduate degrees awarded at 4-year universities. Associates degrees are probably called "two-year" degrees because the majority of associate degree programs can be completed in two years. It may be true that most individuals earning an ADN actually spend more than two years doing it. If this is the case and people are upset about the ADN being called a two-year degree, then maybe nursing education needs to be reformed.

As far as nurses being professionals, I believe that it depends on the individual. And Happybunny, just because someone is a doctor doesn't mean that they are professional. The general public may consider them to be "professionals", as a group, but individual professionalism can vary greatly. That comment about nurses being "not too far down from doctors" kinda hurt.

[roxxy3773]

Good points KatRN,BSN.

In my case, due to my school's entrance requirements, a person can get into the program with nothing more than high school Chemistry, Bio, and Algebra. This means that I can get my ADN in 2 years. All the extra classes that many schools or students may consider pre-reqs are co-reqs in my program, and while A&P 1 and 2 will get an individual extra points at my school, they are not required to get in. I happened to have a few classes done from a previous degree, but none that helped me get into the program or increased my points to gain entrance, so I disagree with psalm's response that you cannot get an ADN in 2 years. That may be the case sometimes, but not the rule.

[psalm]

Originally Posted by KatRN,BSN

I have to disagree respectfully. An associates degree is considered a two-year degree. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to actually do it. If you spend 5 or 6 years getting a BSN, it does not mean that it is a 5-year degree. It is still considered a 4-year degree, as are all undergraduate degrees awarded at 4-year universities. Associates degrees are probably called "two-year" degrees because the majority of associate degree programs can be completed in two years. It may be true that most individuals earning an ADN actually spend more than two years doing it. If this is the case and people are upset about the ADN being called a two-year degree, then maybe nursing education needs to be reformed.

As far as nurses being professionals, I believe that it depends on the individual. And Happybunny, just because someone is a doctor doesn't mean that they are professional. The general public may consider them to be "professionals", as a group, but individual professionalism can vary greatly. That comment about nurses being "not too far down from doctors" kinda hurt.

...you are missing the point. Yes, a person can get their BSN over 4 years or more...maybe even a little less if able to take classes year round. An ADN is 4 semesters= 2 years AFTER pre-reqs are satisfied. It may take more than 2 years, yes. Add on the credits for pre-reqs, which have to be completed before validation to clinicals which in a sense is the first 2 years of a BSN, then you have more than a "two year degree".

Regardless of the above, we should all behave professionally, whether an LPN, RN, NP, etc. We have all worked hard for our licenses and to maintain them thru CEUs and certifications for specialties.

[happybunny1970]

Originally Posted by KatRN,BSN

As far as nurses being professionals, I believe that it depends on the individual. And Happybunny, just because someone is a doctor doesn't mean that they are professional. The general public may consider them to be "professionals", as a group, but individual professionalism can vary greatly. That comment about nurses being "not too far down from doctors" kinda hurt.

Sorry if my comment was misinterpreted... what I meant to convey is that BEFORE I entered nursing as a career, my perception (based on my limited experience with both doctors and nurses, which was VERY limited since I was rarely ill) was that doctors and nurses garnered equal respect from me, simply based on the fact that they were doctors and nurses. This was meant as a "John Q Public" interpretation of nurses -- not an insider view.

Of course, in the last five years working as a nurse, I have encountered both MDs and RNs whom I do not view in this light -- but upon meeting any of them, I give them the benefit of the doubt unless and until they prove that they do not deserve it.

And thank you for more accurately stating what I intended regarding the ADN degree -- yes, it actually took me 3 years to complete, but I was referring to the Nursing program itself, which is only two years. And also as you said, Kat, just having a specific degree does not indicate the actual amount of time spent earning it -- I'm currently working on a combined BSN/MSN, which (had I gone all the way through from the beginning) would have taken me 5-6 years. Currently I'm starting year 5, because life has caused me to take classes here and there, and to take time off now and again. I expect in the end I'll end up with a 10-year Masters!

[steelcityrn]

Yes of course a nurse is a professional.

[psalm]

I am curious, Roxxy, what state can you start an ADN with no college pre-reqs?

[HeartsOpenWide]

Originally Posted by psalm

...here we go again! There might have been a "two-year program" but did you include all the pre-req credits? No! There is no such thing as a two-year program, there is a two-year clinical, okay... but no one can be a registered nurse in 2 years, as in 24 months.

BSN's have as their first 2 years of the "four-year program" their pre-reqs...those are the electives as well as the English and speech, Government, math, psych, sociology, biology, ethics, micro, A&P I and II, etc.

Please, can we come up with a different term for ADN nurse?

At my school (a four year) we spend three of the four years in the actual nursing program. I call it a three year program and the ASN/ADN program a 2 year program because you do not actually take nursing classes when you are taking anatomy, chem, physio ect; any one can take these classes--but not every one gets into the nursing program where you take actual nursing classes. Technically there ARE two and three year PROGRAMS but they are two (ASN degree) and four (BSN) DEGREES....

[roxxy3773]

Hi psalm,

To answer your question, NH. My mom lives over the NH/MA border and I applied to a community college in MA and they basically told me that they wouldn't even look at my application until I had at least A&P done. I applied to all the close NH community colleges because they only required that I completed certain classes in high school and take the NLN exam. There are still about 500+ applicants for 56 spots per location I applied, and they do base it on a point system. They base everything on your NLN score and your references, and then you get points for A&P 1 and 2; it doesn't even matter what your GPA is (as long as it fits the minimum requirements). It is considerably harder for those who do not test as well to get into this system, but I wonder if that is part of it, we do have excellent NLN scores in all the community colleges in NH. Anyway, that just happens to be how it is in NH, and I have heard of other schools like this, although it is not usually the norm throughout the country.

I definitely agree that regardless of what degree, ADN or BSN, all nurses should be professional!

[al7139]

Talk about opening up a can of worms!
I am sure you will see so many different opinions on this. It will be interesting to see where this thread leads!
I will say that when I first considered nursing as a career, someone I know who is a surgical tech said to me "All nurses do is sit around and push meds." She obviously had no respect for the education nurses have, and no clue as to what a nurse does. Perhaps she had bad experiences with nurses she worked with...I don't know.
I went to school, got my degree, and now work as an RN on a very busy cardiac unit. I can tell you that I rarely have time to sit, and the least of my duties on a shift is meds. I am the eyes and ears of the doctors, the patient advocate, and have the responsibility for all patients in my care as well as being the leader to the ancillary staff I work with. I have to be able to delegate, intervene, think on my feet, and hold myself and others accountable for our care of the patients. So, in answer to your question, YES! Nurses ARE professional!
Amy

[Cherish]

Originally Posted by psalm

...here we go again! There might have been a "two-year program" but did you include all the pre-req credits? No! There is no such thing as a two-year program, there is a two-year clinical, okay... but no one can be a registered nurse in 2 years, as in 24 months.

BSN's have as their first 2 years of the "four-year program" their pre-reqs...those are the electives as well as the English and speech, Government, math, psych, sociology, biology, ethics, micro, A&P I and II, etc.

Please, can we come up with a different term for ADN nurse?

It's funny you say this. I am in a program that is 5 semesters INCLUDING pre'reqs. So it IS possible to get your RN with a 2 year program. I am in a diploma program and currently doing the first semester which is PRE REQS...so please don't assume that ALL programs are more than 2 years.