[cheerfuldoer]

Originally Posted by grannynurseFNP

Without intending to do so, you have just angered approximately 60% of the nurses, in this country...................................
Grannynurse

[ageless]

Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynurseFNP
Without intending to do so, you have just angered approximately 60% of the nurses, in this country...................................
Grannynurse

Originally Posted by cheerfuldoer

Why does this bring out our anger instead of our problem solving skills. I do not see winner or losers...just registered nurses who must confront a professional issue involving education. What are we afraid will happen if our educational track become standardized. When can WE as a profession come together to find a professional solution? As long as this debate continues we will have CEO's who say silly things like "nurses should marry better to have better pensions".

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by ageless

Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynurseFNP
Without intending to do so, you have just angered approximately 60% of the nurses, in this country...................................
Grannynurse









Why does this bring out our anger instead of our problem solving skills. I do not see winner or losers...just registered nurses who must confront a professional issue involving education. What are we afraid will happen if our educational track become standardized. When can WE as a profession come together to find a professional solution? As long as this debate continues we will have CEO's who say silly things like "nurses should marry better to have better pensions".

I couldn't agree with you more. I just spent four hours, at USF library, researching journal articles on this topic. You would be surprised at what I have found out. And how much actual research has been done into this very topic.

Grannynurse

[caroladybelle]

Originally Posted by ageless

Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynurseFNP
Without intending to do so, you have just angered approximately 60% of the nurses, in this country...................................
Grannynurse


Why does this bring out our anger instead of our problem solving skills. I do not see winner or losers...just registered nurses who must confront a professional issue involving education. What are we afraid will happen if our educational track become standardized. When can WE as a profession come together to find a professional solution? As long as this debate continues we will have CEO's who say silly things like "nurses should marry better to have better pensions".

Why does it bring out anger?? Well, other than being rude and insulting???

Being rude and insulting is the source of the anger. And no "problem solving" can cure rude and insulting.

If ND was able to get enough nurses with a BSN....with as long as the rule has been on the books, obviously the "BSN will flock here for the professionalism" theory failed. That particular state is not the most populous and it has an advantage in being close to Canada, where nurses are more likely to cross the border to work in the States and are required to have a Bachelor's. If it could not keep enough nurses with a BSN, then the chances are pretty low for the rest of the Country.

The ADN is frequently blamed for the low pay rate and the low prestige of Nursing. Sorry, guys, but it has to do with cleaning up bodily wastes, and other unpleasant physical tasks of nursing and corporate disregard for nurses.

As long as nurses clean up feces/vomit, get bitten by dementia patients, do tube feeds and draw blood, and wear a wash and where uniform, we will be looked down upon. And unfortunately, that is part of our job. The Public has difficulty seeing the "value" of that (as do many nurses that are reluctant to get their gloves dirty - the "That is the Aide's job" mentality).

Much like the stay at home mother/father who does one of the most important societal duties (and gets little credit for it) and the child care worker (who is responsible for a large part of OUR future), we are not valued because we care for the physical and psychological needs of the vulnerable. Our value cannot be easily quantified on a spread sheet. We do not pay well for those who take care of real people and their basic needs and we do not respect those that clean up &*$%. And it matters little whether we have a high school degree or a Masters, as long as the public sees us as someone who cleans their bottoms.

If there was justice in the "Degree theory", teachers would be well paid and treated well by the Public (they are not), Social workers would not be overworked and underpaid and we would require nursery school personnel to have a Masters and pay them accordingly. Families would have difficulty affording day care, and parents/people would value childcare more as a good and responsible task (as it should be).

As long as nurses don't sit at a desk, doing clean and tidy work, on a nine to five with a one hour break, the career field will be at a disadvantage at attracting others due to "prestige". And making it harder for the working class to enter this very "working class" field is not going to help.

Few want to get a Bachelor's to clean up poop. Heck, my own parents hated the idea of me getting any college degree to clean up poop. Unfortunately, it is a job requirement.

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by caroladybelle

Why does it bring out anger?? Well, other than being rude and insulting???

Being rude and insulting is the source of the anger. And no "problem solving" can cure rude and insulting.

If ND was able to get enough nurses with a BSN....with as long as the rule has been on the books, obviously the "BSN will flock here for the professionalism" theory failed. That particular state is not the most populous and it has an advantage in being close to Canada, where nurses are more likely to cross the border to work in the States and are required to have a Bachelor's. If it could not keep enough nurses with a BSN, then the chances are pretty low for the rest of the Country.

The ADN is frequently blamed for the low pay rate and the low prestige of Nursing. Sorry, guys, but it has to do with cleaning up bodily wastes, and other unpleasant physical tasks of nursing and corporate disregard for nurses.

As long as nurses clean up feces/vomit, get bitten by dementia patients, do tube feeds and draw blood, and wear a wash and where uniform, we will be looked down upon. And unfortunately, that is part of our job. The Public has difficulty seeing the "value" of that (as do many nurses that are reluctant to get their gloves dirty - the "That is the Aide's job" mentality).

Much like the stay at home mother/father who does one of the most important societal duties (and gets little credit for it) and the child care worker (who is responsible for a large part of OUR future), we are not valued because we care for the physical and psychological needs of the vulnerable. Our value cannot be easily quantified on a spread sheet. We do not pay well for those who take care of real people and their basic needs and we do not respect those that clean up &*$%. And it matters little whether we have a high school degree or a Masters, as long as the public sees us as someone who cleans their bottoms.

If there was justice in the "Degree theory", teachers would be well paid and treated well by the Public (they are not), Social workers would not be overworked and underpaid and we would require nursery school personnel to have a Masters and pay them accordingly. Families would have difficulty affording day care, and parents/people would value childcare more as a good and responsible task (as it should be).

As long as nurses don't sit at a desk, doing clean and tidy work, on a nine to five with a one hour break, the career field will be at a disadvantage at attracting others due to "prestige". And making it harder for the working class to enter this very "working class" field is not going to help.

Few want to get a Bachelor's to clean up poop. Heck, my own parents hated the idea of me getting any college degree to clean up poop. Unfortunately, it is a job requirement.

Actually, the journal articles and research I found last night, does not support your view. I would be happy to share what I have found, if anyone is interested in research

Grannynurse

[katwoman7755]

Originally Posted by grannynurseFNP

Actually, the journal articles and research I found last night, does not support your view. I would be happy to share what I have found, if anyone is interested in research

Grannynurse

I'm always interested in research...so I would appreciate the links....

Kathryn

[ageless]

I am payed for my critical thinking skills. The fact that I clean "poop" is... Langnaippe (a little extra bonus)

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by katwoman7755

I'm always interested in research...so I would appreciate the links....

Kathryn

Can't provide you with the links but I can provide the citations.

Grannynurse

[SusanJean]

Originally Posted by grannynurseFNP

Can't provide you with the links but I can provide the citations.

Grannynurse

Post away...

[texan]

I believe you can be a great nurse at any level and most nurses with the many years of experience, as you mentioned, will always be better than a new nurse no matter the difference in education. However, I do think the profession of nursing will advance as the educational requirements do. Look at other professions, very few with our level if responsiblity allow such minimal education. In fact most require a masters degree (social work, physical therapy, etc.) This may or may not actually make nurses better. Most people who argue this topic mean no disrespect to differently educated nurses, they only want to see the profession advance. The reason I started this thread is because I was working on a thesis about the topic and after much research and even more writing it is clearly apparent the advance is long awaited.

Originally Posted by kristyw4

I just graduated from the Dakota Practical Nursing Program at Williston State College and I have never been more pleased with the "technical" education I received. I am quite offended by your "step backward" comment and I can tell you now, compared to the BSN RN students that we shared the floor with my first year of school, we blew them out of the water. This meaning: our nursing skills, assertiveness, communications skills, and our great attitudes and our "jump right in" confidence. Our charting skills were better and our spelling and writing - better! We understood our terminology much better.

We had a few RN students asking us for help with their care plans on one of the floors we had clinicals on! We gladly helped them out and enjoyed working side by side with them but we really knew our stuff and I am proud to say I am a graduate LPN.

There are many diploma nurses out there that have been around a LOOONNG time, can you say the same for them? Does all that extra time taking theory and professional development really improve your "technical nursing skills" that we all have to learn, no matter what route you pursue?

I wondered when I read your post if you were a "new" RN. You are one year in, just as I thought. I hope your attitude changes someday and I hope you never become a clinical instructor because that is just the type of attitude that is detrimental to nursing morale, whether you are and LPN or an RN. Shame on you.