[chaxanmom]

Originally Posted by Alternator81

No, they don't take the same amount of time.

Our nursing program has 61 credits by itself. This is not counting the prerequisite work, which is roughly around 70 credits. For any Bachelors degree you need at least 120 credits.

The ADN programs in my area have 36 credits in nursing curriculum, and average 70 credits for the whole degree.

Same here. Mostly I've heard that doing a 2-year program full-time takes, um, 2 years and a 4-year program full-time takes, um, 4 years. 2 does not = 4 even if you want it to really reeeeeeeeally badly. Seems like fairly simple logic to me.

[futurecnm]

Originally Posted by MB37

Depending on how you look at it, requiring a BSN for entry could actually INCREASE the number of nurses out there (as long as current RNs with any level of education were grandfathered) by increasing the prestige of the profession. I have a previous BS, and I would never have considered any career choice or further education that wouldn't have provided at least another bachelor's degree. I never considered nursing out of high school because I didn't really know what nurses did, and I didn't think of it as a profession. I obviously no longer feel that way, but I do think that requiring the BSN for entry would improve the prestige of the profession.

In no way do I mean to intimate that LPNs or RNs who came into the field via other routes are bad nurses or were poorly educated - I'm sure some of the CC programs out there are fantastic, and probably quite a few are better than mine as far as teaching actual nursing practice is concerned. I'm just saying that there are many people like me who feel pressured by family or by ourselves to be "professional," and well educated, and if that was the standard view of nursing in the community we might get more of the best and brightest into the field. Usually I don't comment on these types of threads, even though it's something I feel really strongly about. I wrote my term paper last semester on whether or not having more BSN nurses on the floor improved patient outcomes, and according to my research, it seems to - although my conclusion was that there still hasn't been enough research to recommend an overhaul of the entire educational system. Check out some of Linda Aiken's research for more info.

If you look at the cost of getting a BSN vs. AD, I believe it would decrease the number of RN's. Many, like myself, just can't afford the BSN education and the community college route was the only one that was practical. I'm a 2nd career nursing student (graduate in may) and have a bachelors degree in a prestigious field. I do not feel like I am any less prestigious because I'm getting a AD. I would have qualified and probably gotten into a accelerated post bac program but when I compare $9000 to $25,000 I have to take the route that makes practical sense. That big reason that they probably won't be requiring a bachelors degree any time soon is that it really would decrease the number of RN's and they can't afford to do that due to the upcoming/current RN shortage. It may happen someday but I don't forsee that coming anytime soon.

[futurecnm]

Originally Posted by TangoLima

ADNs are defensive that they are "only" ADNs (I don't mean for that to sound bad, just trying to make a point) .

That sounded really bad. I don't know one ADN grad who would ever say they are "only" a ADN. Bad choice of words and quotes in my opinion.

[Sterren]

Originally Posted by chaxanmom

A 2-year degree has HALF the required credit hours of a 4-year degree. It is not the same amount of classes or the same amount of work as a bachelor's degree. Period. If it were then it would be called a...bachelor's degree. If you want and think you deserve a bachelor's degree then do a bachelor's program, not an associate program.

I am in a BSN program, but thanks for that helpful suggestion.

I spent 4 years getting my bachelors, and will graduate in May. One of my friends will have spent 5 years getting her ADN. Another is in her 3rd of 4 years, for her ADN. I looked at both programs when I decided which school to apply to - both the ADN and BSN programs in my area offer 2 years of clinicals and nursing-specific education. Maybe my area is unique, but that's the situation where I am and that is the situation upon which I base my opinion. 2 years = 2 years. I don't think the sociology class I took that they didn't have to, really makes me that much more prepared. But that's me.

[AliveToday]

I am in a grueling associate degree program, and I certainly don't see what an extra chemistry class and a few more liberal arts courses would do to help me in the clinical environment.
I definitely don't think that a BSN should be required for an RN. The BSN is required for certain RN positions and for those who want to specialize. Isn't that enough?

[chaxanmom]

Originally Posted by Sterren

I am in a BSN program, but thanks for that helpful suggestion.

I spent 4 years getting my bachelors, and will graduate in May. One of my friends will have spent 5 years getting her ADN. Another is in her 3rd of 4 years, for her ADN. I looked at both programs when I decided which school to apply to - both the ADN and BSN programs in my area offer 2 years of clinicals and nursing-specific education. Maybe my area is unique, but that's the situation where I am and that is the situation upon which I base my opinion. 2 years = 2 years. I don't think the sociology class I took that they didn't have to, really makes me that much more prepared. But that's me.

The number of credit hours for each program is what? Sure you can take 5 years to get an AD, you can take 10 years if you like but the credit hours earned is the same and it's not the same number of credit hours as a bachelor's degree. That's just simple math.

[sher10]

For heavens sake, can this poor dead horse not be left alone??? Shall we beat it some more???

Obviously, there are strong feelings on both sides. You think anything you're going to post on this space will change the thinking of those who are hard core?? These are issues we must resolve in our own minds. This bickering does nothing to further the profession. Instead of investing so much time deciding who's the smartest, bestest, etc etc etc why not invest in one another. I'm sure in the real world the ADN's will have something that can be shared with the BSN's and vice versa.

My dear ole daddy, who is the retired dean of a major medical school once told me that he made sure he spoke with every employee he encountered each day in the medical center. Didn't matter if it was the housekeeper or the kitchen staff or the DON or the big cheese in administration. He made sure that each and every one of these people knew without a doubt that their contribution to the wellbeing of the patients and the school was greatly appreciated. He valued teamwork and commitment and dedication to the patient and knew how important each person was to a well oiled machine. SOOOO....bottom line....we're all in this together. I urge all to examine their thoughts and prejudices and be open to one another. And per me dear ole Dad again....the best nurse he ever knew was the little nursing sister (nun) who had been trained in a hospital diploma program who would NOT give up when his precious baby daughter was so sick and dehydrated that it was almost impossible to get a line in. She worked tirelessly and patiently with much love to save his baby...me. It was the love and devotion and cussed determination that mattered. Not the initials after her name.

[jjjoy]

Many of the extra units required for a BSN are gen ed and upper division elective coursework... the courses that qualify the degree as a bachelor's degree but that aren't specific to the nursing major. Such courses are not always directly related to one's major. I took an interesting course on death and dying that counted as an upper division elective for nursing majors, psych majors, sociology majors, and maybe some other majors as well. These types of courses help develop well-roundedness but aren't directly helpful to the average nurse in day to day clinical work. Having studied some famous thinker on death won't help a nurse know what to when a patient codes or what potential side effects to look for or know what certain abnormal lab values mean.

Other "extra" courses that BSNs require, such as community health, research, leadership & professional issues, have been added to many ADN programs as well so it's hard to say across the board what "extra" nursing coursework BSN programs offer.

So while it's true that ADN program by definition do not offer alll the courses necessary to earn a bachelor's degree, it's also true that many ADN programs offer as much as 75% of the coursework that BSN programs do. And much of the the other 25% isn't directly related to the practice of nursing, making it seem irrelevant to a nurse who wants their investment further education to enhance their nursing practice. There currently is little reason for the average bedside nurse to want to jump through the BSN hoop if they are planning to continue working at the bedside.

[natania]

Originally Posted by chaxanmom

The number of credit hours for each program is what? Sure you can take 5 years to get an AD, you can take 10 years if you like but the credit hours earned is the same and it's not the same number of credit hours as a bachelor's degree. That's just simple math.

The two year ADN programs do not include the prerequisite courses that (I believe) are included in a BSN program, such as English, math, history, psych, anatomy, physiology, microbiology, chemistry, etc. Add them all up, and yes - you ARE looking at 3 1/2 - 4 years.

[chaxanmom]

Originally Posted by natania

The two year ADN programs do not include the prerequisite courses that (I believe) are included in a BSN program, such as English, math, history, psych, anatomy, physiology, microbiology, chemistry, etc. Add them all up, and yes - you ARE looking at 3 1/2 - 4 years.

All the ones I've seen have. Those courses (with the exception of the basics that you should have taken in high school) are included in the number of credit hours for the program.
Example:
http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/cur...ns/cdnurse.htm