[Suesquatch]

I simply don't get it.

I go to school because I'm interested in learning, not because I'm going to get more money.

Now, I an pursuing my RN but that's largely because I am not a contented subordinate, and I want more options and a broader scope of practice than an LPN in NYS proffers. But should I go on for the BSN afterwards - what could possibly be wrong with gaining more knowledge?

[chaxanmom]

Originally Posted by Beggar♂

Perhaps I'm not qualified to render an opinion since I don't even start NS until January. However, my life experience gives me a perspective that I choose to share, anyway.



That's precisely the issue. To practice, you need to earn an RN which means you have a certain number of clinical contact hours, an education in the nursing scope of practice, and the ability to pass the NCLEX.

However, the license really doesn't mean squat about your education. It's just a license. It's akin to an ATP, the license held by the jet jockeys flying for the airlines. Their ATP, which is very tough to earn and keep, means that their skill and knowledge as pilots is deemed minimally acceptable for their scope of practice. Likewise, the RN license means that the holder has the minimally acceptable skills to practice the nursing scope of practice.

A college degree (AA/S, BA/S, MA/S, PhD, etc) means a certain level of competence in areas of thought outside of ones specialty. It means a minimum level of educational proficiency in communications, computational skills, and critical thinking.

A college degree also signifies a minimal level of educational proficiency in major-specific topics (the level of which is proportional to the degree level) and the opportunity to study more ancillary topics (again, the higher the degree, the more this is true).

Whether one values the education beyond that required to attain the license probably depends on their point of view.

Personally, all other things being equal, I would choose to hire people with more education rather than less in any line of work.

Certainly, university education does not make a good nurse. On the other hand, a nurse who has a baccalaureate or advanced degree, is probably more able to adapt to new situations, independently learn new subject matter, or develop an appropriate course of action in a case for which they've not been specifically trained.

I think all nurses should be encouraged to pursue as much education as they're willing. On the other hand, during those months my daughter was in the NICU, I never checked which degrees the good nurses held. I knew they were RNs, skilled in neonatal care, and I knew the ones that were good.

Offering a perspective from outside of nursing (I start my DEMSN in January), though, I do think that, in the long run, the nursing profession would benefit by having a higher educational requirement for entry.

Awesome answer. Ditto everything.

[smalltownnurse07]

I think that the most important thing is that nurses of all levels of education come together and work as a team in the clinical setting! It doesn't matter how you became an RN, just that you did it and you had the skills to get through school and pass that NCLEX! There are some nursing jobs that require different levels of education of course but if those are not of interest then who cares? We all know that it is about the patients and making them feel cared for and keeping them safe anyways... As for the whole nursing school rivalry comment... I think it depends on the school. The particular BSN program from which I graduated had a 100% NCLEX pass rate and we all know how to use a bedpan!! However, there are some other BSN programs in the area which have lower pass rates... it really depends on the teachers and the group of students. There are also ADN programs with 100% pass rates... so who needs to compete? We all share the same passion to care for the sick and to help people when they need us the most!

[lenbow]

Originally Posted by Beggar♂

Perhaps I'm not qualified to render an opinion since I don't even start NS until January. However, my life experience gives me a perspective that I choose to share, anyway.



That's precisely the issue. To practice, you need to earn an RN which means you have a certain number of clinical contact hours, an education in the nursing scope of practice, and the ability to pass the NCLEX.

However, the license really doesn't mean squat about your education. It's just a license. It's akin to an ATP, the license held by the jet jockeys flying for the airlines. Their ATP, which is very tough to earn and keep, means that their skill and knowledge as pilots is deemed minimally acceptable for their scope of practice. Likewise, the RN license means that the holder has the minimally acceptable skills to practice the nursing scope of practice.

A college degree (AA/S, BA/S, MA/S, PhD, etc) means a certain level of competence in areas of thought outside of ones specialty. It means a minimum level of educational proficiency in communications, computational skills, and critical thinking.

A college degree also signifies a minimal level of educational proficiency in major-specific topics (the level of which is proportional to the degree level) and the opportunity to study more ancillary topics (again, the higher the degree, the more this is true).

Whether one values the education beyond that required to attain the license probably depends on their point of view.

Personally, all other things being equal, I would choose to hire people with more education rather than less in any line of work.

Certainly, university education does not make a good nurse. On the other hand, a nurse who has a baccalaureate or advanced degree, is probably more able to adapt to new situations, independently learn new subject matter, or develop an appropriate course of action in a case for which they've not been specifically trained.

I think all nurses should be encouraged to pursue as much education as they're willing. On the other hand, during those months my daughter was in the NICU, I never checked which degrees the good nurses held. I knew they were RNs, skilled in neonatal care, and I knew the ones that were good.

Offering a perspective from outside of nursing (I start my DEMSN in January), though, I do think that, in the long run, the nursing profession would benefit by having a higher educational requirement for entry.

To hire someone because they have more education over someone who has more experience in a certain area is not something I would do.

I will say this, there are some people that make wonderful students, they are career students. They get wonderful grades, or maybe not so wonderful grades, but they stay in school and keep on going. Just because someone is booksmart, or financially able to continue with higher education, does not always make a better nurse. Or pilot, or accountant, or doctor.

I had a clueless clinical instructor with a masters, but the best clinical instructor was the instructor with an associates degree from the community college. So how short sighted to dismiss someone for their level of education. Thank goodness my school hired the associate nurse, the one who taught us the most.

I respect the nurses with a masters, and with the bachelors degree. I am responding to your comments.

But you in your life experience you would hire someone solely on their level of education. I would much better have a nurse that has worked for years on the floor, than a nurse who solely who was hired because of her level of education.

What a recipe for disaster and disapointment if everyone thought like you. Thats a real morale booster. Right.. Other nurses end up picking up the slack for the higher paid less productive, much more thought of(by your opinion) team player. That makes alot of sense.

Good luck in your nursing studies. It is a long road. One that you will find very educating.

[Lightning Bug RN]

Originally Posted by lenbow

To hire someone because they have more education over someone who has more experience in a certain area is not something I would do.

I will say this, there are some people that make wonderful students, they are career students. They get wonderful grades, or maybe not so wonderful grades, but they stay in school and keep on going. Just because someone is booksmart, or financially able to continue with higher education, does not always make a better nurse. Or pilot, or accountant, or doctor.

I had a clueless clinical instructor with a masters, but the best clinical instructor was the instructor with an associates degree from the community college. So how short sighted to dismiss someone for their level of education. Thank goodness my school hired the associate nurse, the one who taught us the most.

I respect the nurses with a masters, and with the bachelors degree. I am responding to your comments.

But you in your life experience you would hire someone solely on their level of education. I would much better have a nurse that has worked for years on the floor, than a nurse who solely who was hired because of her level of education.

What a recipe for disaster and disapointment if everyone thought like you. Thats a real morale booster. Right.. Other nurses end up picking up the slack for the higher paid less productive, much more thought of(by your opinion) team player. That makes alot of sense.

Good luck in your nursing studies. It is a long road. One that you will find very educating.

Could not have said it better myself!

[Beggar♂]

Originally Posted by Beggar♂

Personally, all other things being equal, I would choose to hire people with more education rather than less in any line of work.

Originally Posted by lenbow

To hire someone because they have more education over someone who has more experience in a certain area is not something I would do.

But you in your life experience you would hire someone solely on their level of education.

Again, let me say "all other things being equal".

Of course I wouldn't hire someone solely on their level of education.

Neither do I value education over experience. Quite the opposite, in fact. In the profession I'm leaving, you may not even sit for the licensing exam until you've worked, post-college, for four years and then obtained references from other licensed folks.

I was simply trying to distinguish between a license, the RN, and an education.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by lenbow

To hire someone because they have more education over someone who has more experience in a certain area is not something I would do.

I will say this, there are some people that make wonderful students, they are career students. They get wonderful grades, or maybe not so wonderful grades, but they stay in school and keep on going. Just because someone is booksmart, or financially able to continue with higher education, does not always make a better nurse. Or pilot, or accountant, or doctor.

I had a clueless clinical instructor with a masters, but the best clinical instructor was the instructor with an associates degree from the community college. So how short sighted to dismiss someone for their level of education. Thank goodness my school hired the associate nurse, the one who taught us the most.

I respect the nurses with a masters, and with the bachelors degree. I am responding to your comments.

But you in your life experience you would hire someone solely on their level of education. I would much better have a nurse that has worked for years on the floor, than a nurse who solely who was hired because of her level of education.

What a recipe for disaster and disapointment if everyone thought like you. Thats a real morale booster. Right.. Other nurses end up picking up the slack for the higher paid less productive, much more thought of(by your opinion) team player. That makes alot of sense.

Good luck in your nursing studies. It is a long road. One that you will find very educating.

Interesting. NLN schools require a minimum of BSN to teach in a clnical setting, a Masters in the Classroom, and a certain number PhD's if you're a BSN program.

We call can up with with stories of the ADN who out performs the BSN in many settings in teaching, management and floor nursing. The best nurse I know is an LPN I work with....bar none she's my role model on how to take care of patients. The last clinical group of ADN students sought her out because she loved working with them.

Still that doesn't say anything but that she's a good nurse. It doesn't say to me "LPNs are better nurses." The same as your experience doesn't tell me that ADNs are better clinical instructors than a Masters prepared nurse.

I one should definately hire according to degree in every job description. Because an experience ADN like myself is priceless (if I do say so myself. LOL)