[WolfpackRed]

Originally Posted by RNGrad2006

The only point I was trying to make is that the comment a BSN student who was soon to graduate made was rather inappropriate. Inferring that they should have a separate exam for BSN grads since they are ever so much better critical thinkers. It seems as BSN programs are becoming more common the BSN NCLEX pass rate are ever so slightly above ADN's (less than 1% and so far in 2007 0.1%). I think the BSN programs are doing a better job of preparing their students for NCLEX than they have in the past. Bottom line is that NCLEX is supposed to test critical thinking skills and ADN students are holding their own. On my floor the only student who has failed NCLEX (now twice) is a BSN graduate. I am in a post RN program but do feel ADN programs put out some great RN's as well. I think it does vary school to school though. The school I went to has an excellent reputation and was very challenging.

First, if you look at the trends over the last six full years, ADN and BSN programs have never been seperated by more than a full percentage point. Additionally, when one program is down, the other follows. I do not feel that it is correct to say that BSN programs are doing a better job education thier students.

Also, if a nurse wants to become certified through the ANA, they do have different exams based on one's education level. I do not know how other organizations set up their credentialing tests, and I will not speak to those.

[RNGrad2006]

Originally Posted by WolfpackRed

First, if you look at the trends over the last six full years, ADN and BSN programs have never been seperated by more than a full percentage point. Additionally, when one program is down, the other follows. I do not feel that it is correct to say that BSN programs are doing a better job education thier students.

Also, if a nurse wants to become certified through the ANA, they do have different exams based on one's education level. I do not know how other organizations set up their credentialing tests, and I will not speak to those.

If you look at what I stated. I did not say BSN programs are doing a better job of educating their students. I said they are doing a better job of preparing students for NCLEX than they had in the past. I have heard from BSN students that they focus so much on nursing theory, management etc...but bottom line is you still have to pass NCLEX to get a licence. I am also a ADN grad and think both programs are good. I don't have a bias either way. I am still glad I went ADN route first. I was just a bit stunned by a BSN student who told me that ADN's would be obsolete down the road, and she was shocked we all took the same exam etc... It kind of took me back a bit since I didn't very much appreciate looked down upon. When you have a student to work with it does slow you down and then to be looked down upon with such arrogant statements did not sit well with me. The only reason I brought up the difference in pass rates in the first place is that some BSN students think they are volumes ahead of ADN's when it comes to critical thinking and I don't think that is automatic for each person. Some are better than others no matter their educational background.

[WolfpackRed]

Yes, I see what you are stating and did not intend to miss quote you, however my question remains: how you can state that BSN programs are doing a "better job of preparing" students when the data shows, since 1998, that pass rates have been so close?

[KellNY]

Wolf, would you not agree that there is more to proof of education than passing rates? Especially since NCLEX is pass/fail?

[WolfpackRed]

There are, but others often use these numbers when they determine their choice in program. I know that they must also balance their personal situation as well.

[jjjoy]

Originally Posted by RNGrad2006

I was just a bit stunned by a BSN student who told me that ADN's would be obsolete down the road, and she was shocked we all took the same exam etc...

The only reason I brought up the difference in pass rates in the first place is that some BSN students think they are volumes ahead of ADN's when it comes to critical thinking and I don't think that is automatic for each person. Some are better than others no matter their educational background.

Keep in mind that if a BSN-prepared nurse says or implies that BSN is a "superior" education, they might have explicitly been taught that. If that's the case, they need gentle education as to what is involved in other nursing education paths. Why gentle? Because you will be challenging something that an instructor told them and at that point it's just your word against their instructor. It will take time for the new grad to be able to make a judgement for themselves on it.

I DID have nursing instructors explicitly say that the BSN program taught more critical thinking and that BSNs would soon be the entry to practice. And I WAS surprised at to find out that ADNs covered the SAME material as BSN students in regard to most aspects of nursing. I didn't even realize that our test questions were specifically written to reflect NCLEX questions as I didn't start thinking about the NCLEX until just before graduation. I was also surprised that a new RN could be oriented by an LPN. In school we always only worked witih RNs so I didn't realize the degree to which LPNs were utilized and worked independently. We were told that we might work with LPNs and that we'd responsible for delegation but that's about it.

Unless they've had experience in nursing, the students are reliant upon their schools to inform them of the state of their profession and not all nursing schools do that. Is it right? No. But getting offended at a misinformed comment doesn't help correct the misinformation.

[Kim O'Therapy]

Just a personal note. I started out in an ADN program and have transferred into a BSN program instead. I did not transfer because I thought I'd get a "better" education, get paid more, etc. I transferred to the BSN program because I've always wanted to earn a college degree. Nothing else. I will be the first in my family to graduate from college, and as you can tell by my age, I did not want to have to go back later. I think education is a personal thing. No matter where you go, you're education is a good as the student. I don't think one is better than the other. Personally, I wish they still had more diploma programs. Certainly, hands-on training is the best way to go. JMHO

[luvpeplrn]

I have my BSN, I did this for myself, as a kind of insurance, in case it would be required someday. I am glad that I earned my BSN, and I do feel that I received a good education and that I am a well-rounded nurse because of it. I too have seen some BSN nurses that do not deserve the title, but as for me I feel that I try to use what I have learned both from school and work experience to provide quality patient care, and always advocate for the most important issue at hand, THE PATIENT!!!! That is what is most important!!!

[RNGrad2006]

Originally Posted by WolfpackRed

Yes, I see what you are stating and did not intend to miss quote you, however my question remains: how you can state that BSN programs are doing a "better job of preparing" students when the data shows, since 1998, that pass rates have been so close?

You are totally misunderstanding me. I have been told by other BSN students that they don't focus much on NCLEX in a BSN program. I am not saying that BSN programs prepare their students better than ADN...quite the opposite. I was just stating that BSN programs are preparing BSN students for NCLEX better than they had done in previous years. I think ADN instructors have always done an excellent job of assisting students with the realities of nursing and NCLEX in general. And BSN programs now that they are a little bit more common than they used to be are also starting to address it as well. The ONLY reason I brought up the whole pass rate is that some BSN students think they are better critical thinkers than ADN's and the scores on NCLEX don't reflect that at all.

[multicollinearity]

Originally Posted by Kim O'Therapy

Just a personal note. I started out in an ADN program and have transferred into a BSN program instead. I did not transfer because I thought I'd get a "better" education, get paid more, etc. I transferred to the BSN program because I've always wanted to earn a college degree. Nothing else. I will be the first in my family to graduate from college, and as you can tell by my age, I did not want to have to go back later. I think education is a personal thing. No matter where you go, you're education is a good as the student. I don't think one is better than the other. Personally, I wish they still had more diploma programs. Certainly, hands-on training is the best way to go. JMHO

Your post reminds me so much of myself! I started out in school with the plan of getting an ADN. Then, things changed. I love college so much that I switched my plans to pre-BSN. Sometimes I am glad that the ADN program in my city is backed up 3 years. It forced me to think BSN!

I want a bachelors degree very badly, besides the nursing education part of the degree. I, too, will be the first in my family to get a bachelor's degree. Agree about the age thing, also! I don't want to go back! Anyway, your post really resonated with me.