[DutchgirlRN]

I do think BSN's should earn more hourly because education should make a difference.

As an ADN I've never encountered a BSN who thought their education was better than mine only disappointed in making the same amount of money. Like, why did I go an extra 2 years?

BSN's do have a greater opportunity to move into management. We have an awesome ADN at work who has served as interim CNO and did a dynamite job but cannot be offered the position permanently because she does not pocess her BSN. Not fair at all but hence...an example of where the BSN does pay off.

I would like to get my BSN only for my benefit, to accompolish getting a Bachelor's. Nothing more, nothing less. At 51 y/o I'm not concerned with moving up only finding a less stressful position. Outpatient Imaging and Nuclear Medicine have been my answer to prayer.

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by lizz

There are other factors at play here that are keeping wages low.

While I agree with this and understand that it's not all about the ADN/BSN debate, most of those factors exist because WE are a divided bunch.

And, from an activism point of view (this debate doesn't carry as much to the actual trenches), this is one of the KEY issues that divide us.

So, even though a specific consensus on THIS issue might not affect other factors at play, a general consensus among nurses, that this issue helps to fracture, COULD be used as a greater forum to address many of the factors in play, not just this one.

~faith,
Timothy.

[sunnyjohn]

Good post T.

This should be on the bulletin board of every nurses station, work mailbox and e-mail inbox or every nurse in the country.


In the words of the kids I tutor, "Don't hate, participate!"

[Kelly_the_Great]

Originally Posted by ZASHAGALKA

While I agree with this and understand that it's not all about the ADN/BSN debate, most of those factors exist because WE are a divided bunch.

And, from an activism point of view (this debate doesn't carry as much to the actual trenches), this is one of the KEY issues that divide us.

So, even though a specific consensus on THIS issue might not affect other factors at play, a general consensus among nurses, that this issue helps to fracture, COULD be used as a greater forum to address many of the factors in play, not just this one.

~faith,
Timothy.

As always, well said, Timothy...

United we stand, divided we fall...

[Jami_Jared]

Originally Posted by burn out

I can't believe such a hot topic and no one has responded yet. Personally I don't think we should let the nursing shortage concern us or affect us. We should not lower the standards of nursing to make more warm bodies eligible to work as a RN. I think if we are going to be Professionals we need to have a professional entry level of a BSN ( not a 2 year ADN with a bs in accounting). The first question being do we want to be considered professionals? If we do I believe that all current RN's should be grandfathered in that lack the BSN level and nationwide entry level should be the same-after all we all take the same test so why not uniform entry levels everywhere. I beleive this is the only way to advance nursing and
get the respect from the doctors that we are all entitled to.

I love the way you think!!! I agree with you totally. There needs to be professional standards!

[Jami_Jared]

Originally Posted by ZASHAGALKA

I posted this in another thread and thought it deserved its own:

A 3-5 dollar an hour differential for BSN will bring ALL RNs along.

See, it's a difference in perspective. The debate is so heated because it's been so polarized for so long when what was needed all along was a consensus.

Today's RN, regardless of entry, is a PROFESSIONAL NURSE, and each of us is entitled, as primary stakeholders, to claim that professionalism.

The question becomes, where do we want to go, AS A GROUP.

For far too long, BSN's have used the issue as a kind of intellectual whipping post: MY DEGREE IS BETTER THEN YOURS.

And ADNs have been rightly 'insulted' and, as a result, reactionary: same pay for same work.

Reality is in the middle. In fact, after years of trying to set up a 'differentiation of practice', there is little evidence that the differences in degrees merits such a differentiation.

AND IN FACT, education DOES matter.

The question is: where do we want to be as a group. If you are a BSN, there is some merit to the argument that a Bach standard for nursing will move us along in pay and respect

~faith,
Timothy.

It all amounts to the fact that you attended a TECHNICAL college which is a lesser degree, and Bachelor's prepared attend a University which equals a PROFESSIONAL degree. If it was considered an equal degree than they would both have the same name. It is sad that 2 degrees take the same board.s.. and I don't agree with it. It is also sad that 2 different degrees equal the same pay....and I also don't agree with that. I know that in a man's profession ...example business, engineering, etc. the same pay would never be acceptable for a lesser degree...and there aren't 2 year degrees or associates degrees in those fields that pay the same, and take the same boards. In those types of fields there is standards for Professionalism and to be unified we need to stop cutting the corners and taking the easy way out and buff up our minimum requirements to all hold Bachelor's degrees. I do agree with you on finding common ground but by downplaying a higher level of education it is hard to agree with your thoughts.

[RNsRWe]

Originally Posted by Jami_Jared

It all amounts to the fact that you attended a TECHNICAL college which is a lesser degree, and Bachelor's prepared attend a University which equals a PROFESSIONAL degree. If it was considered an equal degree than they would both have the same name.

While the two degrees in question are obviously not equal, and therefore not using the same name, the LICENSE which we are all speaking of DOES bear the same name: Registered Professional Nurse. Not "Registered Technical Nurse" and Registered Professional Nurse", the latter deemed worthy only for those who have a 4-year degree.

Despite your use of the term "technical college", which displays your lack of understanding of most 2-year colleges within the State University system, your RN license is equivalent to anyone with an ASN-RN. Not the DEGREE, but the license. You previously posted that your State does not have 2-year nursing programs in their schools, and that is likely the reason for your lack of understanding of just what those schools are and do.

Anyone who holds such an RN is completely entitled to use the term PROFESSIONAL, as the State bestows that title; it is not subjective, and not for you to dismiss.

[Jami_Jared]

Professional by definition has meant holding a Bachelors! It doesn't mean that nurses; LPN, ASN, ADN can't act like a professional. But having a "Professional" degree constitutes attending a university or 4 year college. I don't make the rules thats just the way it is in society and that is the bare requirements. I do not lack understanding of what ASN-RN schools are or what they do. Two year colleges are not part of a state university system in any state that is why they are called community college, technical institutions...they have a different name for a reason. Universities are held with higher regard nation wide for every degree not just in nursing that is why it costs more to attend there and people recieve well - rounded degrees. We should not put BSN's down for having higher education!! The problem is that ASN - nurses think they are equal just because they pass the same boarding. And that does lead to inner confusion. But take the time to really think about what is being said here. You are trying to pass off that attending less college but passing the sames boards really means that things are equal. Who are we trying to fool here. Our inner selves ?? I don't think so.

[CrunchRN]

Beating this dead horse again huh?

Just give me a nurse that knows what she is doing, will be assertive on my behalf when needed, and has a heart, and washes her hands! That is the ideal nurse to me if I were a patient.

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by Jami_Jared

Professional by definition has meant holding a Bachelors! It doesn't mean that nurses; LPN, ASN, ADN can't act like a professional. But having a "Professional" degree constitutes attending a university or 4 year college. I don't make the rules thats just the way it is in society and that is the bare requirements.

By whose definition?

You are seeking to appeal to an authority that doesn't exist, the all inclusive, 'they'. 'Hey, I didn't make the rules; THEY made the rules."

Who exactly, is that? Are you referring to the propaganda put out by most BSN programs?

I advocate a minimum entry to practice. Fortunately, professional nursing has JUST such a standard: ADN. Congrats on EXCEEDING minimum entry.

I will say this, the attitude of putting down ADNs to get to a BSN standard has been tried and failed for 40 yrs. It will fail for another 40 yrs. Only when all stakeholders are invested in the process will nursing ever move forward on this issue. It doesn't matter how great your idea is if you have a losing argument (and I submit that a gradual move to BSN entry IS a good idea). Putting down your peers is a losing argument. It's been a losing argument in this debate for decades.

My point is valid - it is THIS argument, that ADNs are inferior products, that holds back BSN entry, not ADNs. It is this argument that creates the defensiveness that deadlocks this issue.

~faith,
Timothy.