[marachne]

Originally Posted by Stanley-RN2B

It's not being politically correct. It's being sensitive of the patients needs. No one suspects you of anything. Religion is just a charged topic. Which is why it doesn't belong in nursing... ever.

Hmm, two signs of someone not wanting to engage in a real discussion: calling them a "Nazi" or calling them "politically correct." I agree, I didn't see anyone being politically correct, just trying really hard to walk that line of sharing information that may not be what one wants to hear.

That said, I have a problem with absolutes and saying that religion doesn't belong in nursing may be a bit absolutist -- but again, I think we have a tendency to conflate religiosity with spirituality. As many have said -- meet the patient where they are and do what you can to meet their needs, physical, emotional, material or spiritual, not what you think is what they need, BUT I also think we need to not be afraid of spirituality. I think having driven it so much out of health care we have lost something that is very important and useful, both to ourselves as care providers and our patients.

The key is as has been stated so many times, making it appropriate to THAT patient (or family member!) at THAT TIME, not what works best for you.

[earle58]

Originally Posted by GardenerGirl

...And you are quoting the Dalai Lama? Am I missing something here? "Stay away from our hospice patients." Are you for real? Practice what you preach.

i've given your posts and my responses, a lot of thought.
and i can see where some of my remarks would offend you.
i'm sorry, gardener.
i really am.

i don't know how many times i have wanted to share my "good news" with dying pts, that yes, there is a wonderfully loving God just awaiting your arrival, and show you the glory and grace of Him and His love.
that you have nothing to fear because your life here on earth, was likely comparable to some aspects of hell and you will soon be embraced with every conceivable facet of peace, goodness and truth.

but i can't share that...
not unless the pt makes it crystal clear, that is what he is seeking.

it's the hospice nurses who will try and make sense out of their lives;
and that they can die, knowing they were of value and service to others.

before i start rambling, i will close by saying that i definitely think your heart is in the right place.
you can certainly share your love and sensitivity w/o disclosing its source.
i do believe that Jesus wanted us to lead by example.
we all know those people who make us feel so very unique and blessed, yet they share this gift through their actions.
the words inevitably, mean very little.

i wish you much peace, cheri.
and again, my apologies for an oh-so-typical-kneejerk-reaction from big mouth, herself.

leslie

[GardenerGirl]

Thank you. And now it's time for my apology. I am totally new to this site and thought that I was getting email alerts whenever anyone posted to this thread. I just read all four pages of reponses, and I had only received a small fraction of email alerts. I was responding to only a few posts, thinking that was all there was. So, my responses were not based on the entire picture. There is so much great input from all of you and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for contributing.

I want to be a terrific Hospice nurse. That is why I'm seeking answers and advice. I appreciate that there is a very fine line to walk when working with our patients. That is always at the forefront of my mind, and I am very aware of not offending anyone. I'm very happy to have found this forum and I hope that we have not gotten off on the wrong foot. I am not a radical or pushy person. I am extremely sensitive and compassionate. I know that we all are, or we would not have chosen such an area to practice nursing. Thanks to all of you, for everything you posted, and I do apologize for my error.

Cheri

[thevicarofblue]

but please, do not ever, EVER say, "have you met Jesus?"
just keep in mind, it is always about them, and never about us.


i am an RN who worked in hospice for years and loved it. NOW i'm an ordained priest but i find myself back in my home state (deep in the heart of the bible belt) with my husband, because he's looking for a priest job, too. (he is an internationally famous compounding pharmacist and that's how we met, when we worked together in hospice....it's a long beautiful story but he always says, "death has been good to us."

anyway, i get the wild heebie jeebies when a CHAPLAIN "forces" his (literally in this case) own godstuff onto pts/clients and their care-givers.

BOTH our chaplains are flaming southern baptists and everyone at hospice either expects everyone to be Xan (christian) or they are bound and determined to "share" in order to MAKE folks Xan...

i have been doing volunteer work for a particular hospice since i've not been able to find a nursing job either. this is NOT how i remember hospice!!

we've been out of the US for over three years as missioners. i spent two of those years writing grants and trying to get hospice going in a particular region/culture of that country

thank you all for this fabulous site

the vicar of blue

[thevicarofblue]

amen to that!

[thevicarofblue]

yes, about the cross thing. as a chaplain for The Neptune Society (the greatest job i ever had!) i wore no collar and certainly no cross UNLESS it was a cross whose "arms" were equal and had a circle around it, a symbol in many cultures. since i am a Xan and needed a 'tangible' to ground me, i looked for other symbols. since it was Neptune and I was helping families create "liturgies"/goodbyes on a yacht, I wore LOTS of dolphins (early Christ symbol). i also have a collection of scallop shells in many forms and made out of many mediums--like a scallop shell, the symbol for pilgrimage/journey, also the symbol of st james, and the shell often used for baptism.... there are LOTS of Xan symbols that do not "offend".... we just need to be creative. it's important that our own needs be met, too, but not at the expense of offending a ct/pt, caregiver, staff of facility. i kept a pin of the Virgin de Guadalupe/"La Morenita" pinned to my bra or I had a rosary pinned to an inside pocket.... the ONLY cross i ever wore was a "Brigid's Cross" since I'm half Irish and if i knew the family was irish, regardless of faith practice.... circles work, spirals work...a google search reveals many ways to ground ourselves in our own "way" while not screaming "I"M A CHRISTIAN" to those with whom i worked...

i created a booklet of prayers and poems from many cultures; i changed any specific Xan godstuff to (usually) one of the 99 names of God that comes from Islam...i used a LOT of Rumi, too.... and Mary Oliver and LOTS of Celtic stuff, pagan and Xan, with the Xan specifics changed and included in brackets the Xan words in case the family requested something "Xan." i am currently working on a similar booklet for ALL our hospice employees... it really helps to keep info about faiths other than your own, particularly as that faith tradition relates to death and dying....

[marachne]

One of the things I was really impressed with during my palliative care fellowship was the chaplains and the chaplain fellows. Their fellowship was so much harder than ours! None of us were all call as they were (and they didn't even have a good place to sleep), it seemed like they were always doing midterms or finals, they regularly gave each other extensive feedback and had to do a lot of self-reflection about what they did/said/responded. Their approach was that they were the only tool they had, so they had to know it well.

In our city we have monthly all-city palliative care meetings, with different people presenting. The chaplain fellows did one presentation and they managed to videotape different faith leaders: a rabbi, a Buddhist teacher, a minister, and a Muslim Imam, asking them about their religion's beliefs about death, dying, and rituals and practices around death and dying. It was such a wonderful example of inclusivity--particularly letting people speak for themselves.

miriam

I know our chaplains have facilitated services/rituals for wiccans, native americans, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims...probably a taoist as well and it has all been a matter of meeting people where they are. Also, our quarterly memorial services include readings from various faiths -- really beautiful.

I've appreciated when I've read notes about their insight about our patients -- their sources of strength, their understating of their struggles, their providing the "prayer of presence" (which I think nurses do too, often, even if we don't use those terms).

As a post-holocaust Jew, I've been raised to have a certain amount of suspicion of Christianity -- the fear that we're a good "catch" to be converted. The chaplains I've been blessed to be around have been sterling examples of what it means, truly to be a good Christian. Of course, I don't live in the bible belt (although I might wind up there) that's a whole other kettle of fish!

[mommy2boysaz]

Gardnergirl~
I absolutely understand your original question.

I believe that any Christian that was witnessing the death of someone who is struggling with their spiritual beliefs would wonder how best to handle it. Your heart absolutely would want to throw them a "life-preserver".

I work in OB and have witnessed couples who are not believers and have just lost a baby, grieving. I so longed to offer them the comfort of Jesus, but knew that it would be inappropriate so I prayed silently then and there for Him to show me what to do. Then a song that I hadn't heard in months came to mind, that says, "You don't always have to have all the answers. Just love them like Jesus." I decided that that is what I would do then and always in those situations. Just like someone else said, be an example of His perfect love and compassion and let Him do the rest.

BTW, I am glad to see some apologies on this thread. Seems Christianity is one of the few things left that is unacceptable to claim...

[elkpark]

Originally Posted by mommy2boysaz

BTW, I am glad to see some apologies on this thread. Seems Christianity is one of the few things left that is unacceptable to claim...

I don't think anyone here has suggested there is anything wrong with a nurse being a Christian -- just that it is not appropriate or acceptable to force one's personal beliefs on our clients.

[thevicarofblue]

BTW, I am glad to see some apologies on this thread. Seems Christianity is one of the few things left that is unacceptable to claim...


As a Christian whose faith is the undergirding of years of social justice work and activism--and as one who lived outside the US in a country so "new" to itself because only in the last few years has this country been out from the HUGE influence of Colonialism and Imperialism--the US being the last of the Imperialism, I've seen, up close and personal, a really ugly side of the US--AND a very ugly side of the Christianity of US Imperialism--even though both my husband and I were there as Xan missioners.

Yes, well, there IS a piece of the truth (as Gandhi said) about Xanity being "unacceptable" in the light of the atrocities of Western Xianity particularly in light of the past nearly 8 years of a very violent theocracy. In the US, it seems that we've taken it for granted that "we" were/are Christian and in parts of the US, a one way of being Xan. When I think of the present conflict within Anglicanism (for example), I think that so much of what is being called "traditional" Xanity (by the Bible etc etc etc) was literally forced on peoples all over the world by Xan missionaries. I won't go on and on about eons of bad, wrong, misinterpreted, horribly translated via culture and power that is, at least for me, THE primary reason Xianity is considered so "unacceptable." In my lifetime, "bad" Xianity has been used to defend racism, sexism, heterosexism, murder, torture, death penalty, economic injustice...from the Civil Rights years to the Black Muslim movement to Vietnam to chemical mega agriculture, the oil industry, to immigration rights to the atrocities of US intervention in Latin America, to GLBTQKQ rights, to 9-11 and the aftermath of war, and on and on... that's a whole lot of baggage and intolerance all under the name of a masculine Christian G/god.

I think it really shows a sensitivity and awareness for those of who are ARE Xan to be respectful of other cultures and other faith traditions. And to that hospice using the language of different faith traditions in the world today as a way to connect to families, patients/clients, and the rest of the world, I give you great HURRAHS!! And for all of us Xan to make ourselves aware of other faith tradition ways and days of celebration and sacred days--says that we really DO honor a Holy One who loves All. I don't know about any of the rest of you, but Christianity is my "way" into paganism and Earth/environmental activism.

Please, to the hospice chaplains comfortable enough to "do" memorial services and life celebrations of other faith traditions, I send a great big THANK YOU!

bleu