[ktwlpn]

Let's bring the thread back to topic-and away from arguing with each other.........Many of us have been where you are right now-I'm sorry for what you are going through.You've got to do what is right for you...Death is irrevocable-you can "start over" with everything else..My family and I made several life changes to cope with my mom's terminal illness and I have no regrets..It's very hard to separate your feelings and desires from your dying loved ones wishes but once your loved one makes their wishes known then consider it a gift they've given you and be their advocate.......It sounds as though he is deteriorating fast-actually his care will be easier to manage when he's in bed.I know how you feel about wanting to be with him as much as you can-but I've seen people stay at bedsides literally for days while their loved one hovered-it seems that sometimes the dying have other plans.If you are not there for those exact minutes it's really ok-what matters is you've done as much as you could carry out you dad's final wishes...To keep him comfortable his way....He may want to die alone to protect you.....Utilize the resources available,follow up with grief counseling.Take care of yourself .....

[req_read]

There is a song by Elvis Presley that describes a scene in which a dying man is speaking to his wife, who has fallen asleep at his beside. He says…

Softly…
I shall leave you softly
For my heart would break
If you should wake
And see me go.

You may want to be there, but that may not be his wish. If he wants you there when he dies, chances are you will be. If he does not, chances are you won't.

[Nurse Ratched]

Req_read, you've got some powerful and thought-provoking posts here. I thank you for the other side of the coin. I think thrashej is benefitting from two distinct and equally valid viewpoints. I confess I tend to lean toward req's thoughts given my relationship with my own father. I hope thrashej finds the needed strength and peace to deal with this, but doesn't hang all hopes on getting validation from a troubled parent-child relationship so late in the game. My concern is that if it doesn't come, that may cause a spiralling down in depression. Please take care of yourself. The last x many years of turmoil are not going to be solved in the next two weeks. I wish you and your family well.

[req_read]

John Bradshaw stated in his first ten hour presentation on PBS on family systems that Alice Miller claimed 96% of American families are dysfunctional. Bradshaw said he disagreed… ALL American families are dysfunctional, he said, it is only a question of degree.

It is axiomatic that “no one is perfect.” That is the same as saying, “We are all dysfunctional, it is only a question of degree.”

We can accept generalities, but are inclined to grow argumentative over particularities. I can accept the fact that, “No one is perfect,” but am inclined to grow argumentative when it comes to discussing my particular imperfections.

When our forefathers declared, “All men are created equal,” we thought that sounded good… until it came down to discussing just exactly what constituted a “man.” Two hundred years later we have amended our definition of “man” to include women, blacks etc. (after having spilled tens of thousands of gallons of blood haggling over the particvularities.)

Now we (hospice nurses) are faced with imperfect families… many of whom ask us, “Gee… what should I do? Should I play into the dysfunctionalism of my family or try something different?”

I say, “Well, addiction is trying the same old thing over and over, each time expecting a different result. Why not try something different.?”

In this particular case we have thrashej trying the same thing over and over, each time expecting a different result. What she was taught was to live her life for someone else… someone who had no intention of changing anything. My suggestion is: Why not try living your own life? If someone else wants to destroy their life… fine. You can love them even while they destroy themselves. But that is no reason why you should destroy your Self.

Some nurses are inclined to say, “I love and care for you even while you destroy your Self.” That is fine and a worthwhile endeavor, but not when the nurse could provide information that would prevent that person’s destruction… especially when the impetus behind the statement amounts to nothing more than wanting admiration for “caring.”

If you are on a lonely, two-lane road in the middle of nowhere and run out of gas and a car stops and the driver says, “I love you and care for you deeply,” then drives on, and another car comes along and stops and the driver says, “I don’t give a darn about you but I do happen to have a gallon of gas I will sell for fifty bucks,” which of those two would you appreciate more?

So you, as a nurse, love and care… great… thanks… I’ll make a mental note. But what have you done for me lately?

In truth, what you have done for me lately is really the measure of your love. If you give me advice that only perpetuates my suffering (advise me to continue honoring the dysfunctional system I grew up in) is that really caring? Or is that just an attempt to assuage your ego by making an appearance of caring?

They call it “tough love.” What that means is, telling someone that doing the same thing over and over is not likely to yield a new result.

Run to your daddy and believe the same old line about how he can’t get along without you? Uh-uh. Not this time. Daddy spun the web of his own life and is responsible for the outcome. You are responsible for yours. Tough, but true.

[thrashej]

Ok, this is what I have to say....

At this point, I am not trying to "fix" my family. I got over that hope a long time ago. Right now, my heart is being ripped out and I love my father. I don't want to see him go, dysfunctional and all. I want to be with him because I know I won't have time with him later. I try to just cherish the moments and put up with the bs cuz the bs comes with the people (unfortunately). I want my Dad to lay down every night in a clean bed, not one stained with feces. I want him to know he was important and we were all there when he needed us most.

Also........my family wants to see me finish school, but that is it! I don't even know if I want to finish school! I got into nursing unsure (because...surprise, surprise! I DON'T have a caregiving personality!) and I will leave nursing school unsure. I am very unsure of almost all things in my life so I guess I am a case in point for Bradshaw (is that John? ) The reason I initially pursued nursing was for security and stability and a slight interest in medicine. That is it. That may have been a mistake.

I realize my mental health is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing. That is hanging by a thread right now so I thought it best to take my LOA from school. Safe patient care is also a concern there too, if I had stayed in school..... As long as I finish this clinical w/i 7 months I lose nothing, no credits, just time I guess....and my friends But, without dropping for now I don't think I could mentally survive...

SECOND most important thing RIGHT NOW to me is my father knowing I cared and that he was more important to me than nursing school. Because while staying in nursing school may be important, I still think caring for my father takes precedence. I want to take care of him at a time when he needs it and help my siblings cope, not fix him or them. I just want to be there for them, even if they are messed up. I would want someone to be there for me!!

Anyway, I am going to take this time to enjoy my Dad, maybe get in shape, deal with the changes at my job, and preserve my mental health. Maybe come October I will really know where my life is headed. Thank you all for responding to me even though I ultimately had to make the decision.

[thrashej]

I am kinda laughing about the dysfunction thing and the whole "caring for others before you care for yourself" thing because lack of that trait is what earned me the title of family bit!%!! Lack of this trait is also what made me think all this time nursing may NOT be for me!!! I am sure I am a bit like that, but to nowhere near the extent as my siblings! I got other problems, lol

[earle58]

you know thrash, you have alot of insight and perception.
and i'm relieved to see your response(s) with such 'oomph' in spite of some inappropriate posts.
i got the distinct impression that you wanted to be with your dad and that's why i encouraged it. i know it's difficult to see clearly when there's so much obscurity in your life.
whatever you do, it's clear how much you love your dad.
and if it's clear to me, then it's even clearer to him.

leslie

[req_read]

Yes… every abused child is convinced that the abuse was their own fault. That is the nature of abuse. Every abused child thinks they caused the abuse. Look it up.

Congratulations Leslie, you have supported a twisted view; i.e. describing emotional abuse as “insight and perception.” You go on to describe anyone who disagrees with your twisted view as an “inappropriate post.”

Advising an individual to depart from the dysfunctionalism of their upbringing is, apart from your assessment Leslie, anything but “inappropriate.” Encouraging someone to remain in a dysfunctional system in order to stroke your own ego is, in a word, sick.

[julsan35]

he thrashej-
Just wanted to let you know, I'm sorry your going through this.
My mom died of lung cancer last May. Her hospice nurses were great, it was her stupid husband we had problems with.(she was married to him for 5 years, after my dad died). I was an ICU nurse, and I didn't want my mom dying in pain. We kept her comfy with morphine, but her husband didn't want her to have it- since it made her fade in and out. Thankfully, my older sister was POA, so she could override his stupidity. Mom was ready to go, and even the day she died, her husband was harping at her to eat (she hadn't eaten in a week).
I wish you peace during this time, it's hard anyway, but throw family dynamics in, and it can really get crazy. I bet your hospice nurse has the same philosophy as me, in not letting people die in pain, if you can help it.
Take care!

[Nurse Ratched]

Thrashej - you're a strong person. No one comes out of that without being one. Your concern and love for your Dad is incredibly admirable. Whatever decision you come to is the right one for you because you made it for yourself. It sounds like your Dad has a supportive family and a great professional team working for him as well. Warmest regards.