[req_read]

As I say, most nurses were the designated "caregiver" in their family system so that is their knee-jerk reaction to life.

Also, regarding the question of "How much longer" (will your father live): It is likely he will linger and live longer than seems physiologically possible... based on his learned coping mechanisms. (He already has and that trend will continue.)

It is also interesting that those who support spending more time with dad and less time with school argue that: He is dying. This is the irrevocable end. No it's not. Death does not end life. Dying process prepares us for continued life, not for the cessation of life.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

Originally Posted by req_read

As I say, most nurses were the designated "caregiver" in their family system so that is their knee-jerk reaction to life.

Also, regarding the question of "How much longer" (will your father live): It is likely he will linger and live longer than seems physiologically possible... based on his learned coping mechanisms. (He already has and that trend will continue.)

It is also interesting that those who support spending more time with dad and less time with school argue that: He is dying. This is the irrevocable end. No it's not. Death does not end life. Dying process prepares us for continued life, not for the cessation of life.

I'm assuming that you're responding to my post.

First of all, if a person's "knee-jerk" reaction is to care for people and about people, I could only wish that reaction on more of us; the world might be a better place.

Second, while it's true that death does not end life, it does end life on this planet, and short of supernatural means, does mean that any earthly relationships are over.

I do not say these things to try to influence what needs to be thrashej's decision, but only to demonstrate that there are other viewpoints besides req_read's on the subject that are equally valid.

Thrash, I pray that you find peace with whatever your decision might be. I realize that it's a difficult one that faces you, and please know that you will have my support whatever you choose.

[earle58]

thrashej,

as angie stated, we can't make the decision for you re: a loa from school.
your instructor told you that you could make it up.
so to me, it's a matter of prioritizing-what is more important at this time?

it's so difficult to assess how close your dad is to leaving this earth.
it does sound as if he's more accepting of his dx, since he's saying his good-byes to different people.
i think it would be a blessing to have his family around him right now, provided all his children can be together cohesively and won't escalate any anxiety he is experiencing. this is a time to pull together and show your unconditional love.
may you find peace.

leslie

[nurse020302]

All families have there own issues and when someone is dying it can bring out the worst. Don't worry about it, take care of your dad and know that in the end you did what was right no matter what everyone else thinks. I'm dealing with the same thing right now my grandfather is on hospice with lung CA and everyone says all kinds of nasty things about me, but it doesn't matter I'm doing what is in his best interest right now. Wish you the best with you Dad.

[beautifulb]

My thoughts are with you Thrashej. You are going through a very tough time right now and the depression isn't helping anything. It sounds like your school is pretty understanding about taking an loa. Take some time for yourself. You said that you want to be with your Dad. Think about what is important to you. Death is so different in everybody. Some people can live for months and others a lot shorter. It is so hard to tell.

[req_read]

Angie O’Plasy RN

Don’t get defensive… I am not responding to just you.

Everyone,

People do gravitate towards professions that are compatible with or reflective of their character… which is usually a product of their family system. For example: people who become farmers tend to be people whose character is compatible with and reflective of wanting to work hard, like the earth (dirt) and growing things. People who go into the “caring” professions tend to be people whose character is… SURPRISE!!!!!.... caring.

In family systems theory, “caregivers” are people within a family system who are trained to feel good about themselves (nurture their self-esteem) by “caring” for others.

Nurses tend to be people who feel good about themselves by caring for others… and as you (Angie O’Plasty RN) say, that is a good thing and we could use a lot more of it. But every coin has 2 sides. Nurses nurture their self-esteem by caring for, or sacrificing for, others… sometimes to the neglect of the Self. Administrators of hospitals (and other healthcare agencies) are perfectly aware of this and make lots of $ by pressing nurses to their limit. They know nurses nurture their self-esteem by “caring” and take full advantage of that fact. After all, self-esteem trumps money… nurses will sacrifice a great deal in order to nurture their self-esteem… including their financial success… which is why nurses earn relatively less than many others in the healthcare industry. “Caring” is both good and bad… or good up to a point and bad beyond that point… because after that point it becomes self neglect.

It is interesting to see the responses in this thread; i.e. from nurses who are, by virtue of their chosen profession, “caregivers.” As “caregivers,” nurses put a premium on “caring.” You all “God Bless” and “pray for” patients & families to a fare-the-well and expect to get kudos & thank you’s & ‘atta boys in return (stroke your self-esteem) while offering little that is actually helpful.

One of the first things told to me by a family of one of the first hospice patients I had was that they did not care how much I “cared,” they wanted something useful. As far as they were concerned I could go “care” somewhere else, they wanted practical help.

Y’all seem to think this is some sort of “caring” contest. As nurses, it is perfectly obvious that y’all “care” (else you would not have become nurses in the first place.) But what thrashij really needs is some practical advice… and advising her to jeopardize her career in a vain attempt to fix someone who cannot be fixed is poor advice.

I would advise thrashij to love her father all she can… your job is to love him not fix him. Destroying your Self in an attempt to change your father and his life would be an exercise in futility. Destroying your Self will not save your dad.

As for all you caring nurses, you need to read more family systems theory; e.g. John Bradshaw. Hospice, perhaps more than any other branch of nursing, deals with family systems. Going into hospice without a good background in family systems theory is a little like going to a gun fight with a knife.

Additionally, dying process strips people down to their real Self. It dissolves the façade that people hide behind during their “life.” In order to relate to people in the extremely vulnerable state, you must be willing to strip your Self of your own façade… which includes your “caring” mask.

Yes… you do “care.” That is real and valuable and loving and comforting. But can you help?

[earle58]

Originally Posted by req_read

But what thrashij really needs is some practical advice… and advising her to jeopardize her career in a vain attempt to fix someone who cannot be fixed is poor advice.

her instructor already told her that she could take an incomplete and make-up her clinicals. that is not jeopardizing but merely delaying.

i don't see the poor advice in wanting to encourage thrash to spend any remaining time with her dad in a meaningful and valuable way.

furthermore, it is the epiphany of insensitivity to argue one's points in the name of being right. thrash needs our support, not this egotistical bickering.

thrash.....i am so very sorry.
again, school can be put on hold.
follow your heart; you won't be sorry.

leslie

[req_read]

Yes Leslie, her instructor did (apparently) tell her she could delay… which in effect, would be to sidestep the issue. It would be to say, “No, I do not have to deal with the dysfunctional nature of my family and the role I was assigned (caregiver), I can just put it off… for now… and pretend.”

There is nothing wrong at all with spending as much time as she has available with her father “in a meaningful way.” That would, in fact, be wonderful. However, jeopardizing her career and life trying to fix her unfixable family would be the equivalent of pouring her life’s energy down a rat hole.

And whose ego is at stake here? You (as nurses are wont to do) argue that your ego (recognition as a “caring” person) is more important than giving thrashej advice that is actually helpful. You can sit in the corner and “care” yourself into a lump of gold, but that does not do one single thing to make thrashej’s life any better.

Thrashej has a real life problem here, and how much you care is quite irrelevant.

You advise thrashej that you are “so sorry.” Congratulations… but that does not do one single thing to help her.

You advise her to “follow her heart,” but if you know anything at all about family systems you would realize that that could be easily confused with the programming she received in a dysfunctional environment… and that if she follows the programming she received in that dysfunctional environment, she will be sorry.

As Bradshaw points out, the greatest tragedy of all is going through life never knowing who you are. Thrashej is not her father’s (or her family’s) savior. She is thrashej… an independent an valid individual in her own right. She cannot fix her family or make their dysfunctional lives pure. She can love them despite their imperfections and obviously does… but hurting her Self to save them is a delusion and a manifestation of the dysfunctional relationship she grew up in. You are encouraging her to accept that dysfunctional relationship as valid and functional. It is not.

Again, dying process teaches us how to live… or in this case, how not to live. Demanding that someone else live their life for me is not a good idea and dying process has a way of making that (painfully) apparent.

[earle58]

Originally Posted by thrashej

I want to be there all the time! It is a very dysfunctional place to say the least and mentally being over there is draining, but I want my Dad to know he is the MOST IMPORTANT thing to me!!!

let us know how it went today thrash?
many of the hospice nurses here have had sev'l yrs experience in dealing with all kinds of pts and all kinds of family dynamics.
if you feel more comfortable with pm'ing, you know how to reach me.
just know i'm thinking of you.

leslie

[SuesquatchRN]

Well, what concerns me is thrash not wanting to leave her room. It sounds as if she's getting quite overwhelmed with this.

I don't know what staying at your brother's to care for him will actually accomplish, thrash. He has a hospice nurse, he is refusing an aide, and he is refusing your help.

Maybe stay there and go to classes from there? Maybe take a couple of days from clinical and make them up this term and sorting out your own feelings?

Your family is telling you to stay in school. Don't let guilt over what you think you're supposed to do interfere with the sensible thing. Withdrawing this close to the end of the semester is only going to throw all of this term's hard work away, and your dad, honey, is still going to die.

Spend as much time with him as you can. Let the hospice nurse work out getting him to accept an aide. One thing I learned in AA was, "Don't '12-step family." In other words, sometimes a bit of distance can be healthy.

Keep posting, thrash.