[CRNA010]

I am not here to bash anyone for using magnets. Heck they are a huge industry and many people swear by them. However, my thoughts lay along the same lines as Charlie since I believe in science and its methods to prove or disprove that something actually works or whether its the placebo effect.

I am all for the placebo effect and if your magnets allow that than go for it. Its a well documented fact that the mind triggers the same area of the brain for pain relief even if a subject is given a placebo, thus showing that if someone strongly believes in something they have the power of mind to turn on the same area of the brain that would be stimulated if they were actually given a useful drug. The mind is a very powerful thing.

I do agree with Charlie that I have not personally seen any scientific studies that have been reproduced by several researchers in different scenarios that substantially prove that magnets have a positive effect other than the placebo effect. Right now I can only see inconclusive studies that are "promising". Lets not forget the self-fulfilling prochecy either.

Some of you believe in magnet therapy and thats fine but its likely the placebo effect turning on an area of your brain that stimulates production of a pain relief chemical, at least that is all science has shown me so far.

I am not here to confirm or deny anyones findings that use them since many things that could not be proven have now been proven and maybe that will be true in the future for magnets.

Here is the link to one of the studies that was listed above.
http://www.stfrancishospitals.org/De...dex=3&tabid=37
And yes, the findings were inconclusive but promising. Here are some quotes from that study.

"However, despite this enthusiasm, there is not much in the way of reliable scientific evidence to support the use of magnets for these conditions."

"In double-blind, placebo-controlled trials, static magnets have shown promise for a number of conditions, but for no condition is the evidence conclusive."

"One study shows the general difficulties to be met in determining the benefits of treatments for pain conditions. This double-blind, placebo-controlled study of 30 people with carpal tunnel syndrome found that a single treatment with a static magnet produced dramatic and long-lasting benefits. However, identical dramatic benefits were seen in the placebo group. Thus, this study supports other trials that found placebo treatment quite effective for the treatment of pain, but provides no evidence for the effectiveness of magnets per se."

[ohlpn]

A lengthy treatise follows on magnetic therapy quackery:
http://www.quackwatch.org/04Consumer...QA/magnet.html

[zenman]

Originally Posted by ohlpn

A lengthy treatise follows on magnetic therapy quackery:
http://www.quackwatch.org/04Consumer...QA/magnet.html

Stephen Barrett, M.D. is a retired psychiatrist who still has little of a reputation even among his peers. Sure, there are quacks in any form of medicine. However, if you read Candace Pert, Ph.D. (pharmacology), the researcher who discovered the opiate receptor and who wrote "Molecules of Emotion," your understanding of what might be possible will be increased.

[talaxandra]

Originally Posted by zenman

... that is what "limits" the study, they know they are in one. We know little about the mind and consciousness. So, think for a moment, if you were a patient with say cardiac disease and consented to be in a study. You are going to hope that you get the "real" thing. That alone will cause changes. You doctor may like you and hope that you are getting the "real" thing. Whether you do or not, his attitude will affect you and your condition. Kinda messes things up doesn't it?

That doesn't seem like a strong foundation for dismissing double-blind trials, at least not in favour of annecdotal evidence. If patients in DB trials are hopeful, so too are those who try magnet therapy or, indeed, any complementary therapy.
The advantage to clinical trials is that the placebo factor can be measured and accounted for, leaving us (if the sample is statistically big enough) with meaningful infomation about effects in addition to the mind-over-matter effects.
I know that we all believe that there are therapies which work, at least in most people, regardless of the mind's influence - antibiotics treat septicaemia even if the patient is profoundly unconscious. Many of us have also seen patients who have a good prognosis but just die, for no apparent reason.
What concerns me about magnet therapy, among others, i that it's target audience is by definion desperate. They tend to have painful, chronic conditions like arthritis, which have ineffective conventional treatments and unpleasant or even life-threatening side effects. We hear about the success stories, but we don't know how many users that represents.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for treatments which are noninvasive, inexpensive, have few or no side-effects. I agree that the companies who have the money (pharmaceutical companies) have no interest in funding research for non-patentable therapies.
But if my patients ask me about therapies like these I want to be able to say in clear conscience that I can recommend it. I treated my carpal tunnel with a combination of B group vitamins, as recommended by my naturopath (and mother). My symptoms went away after a month, and I've never had a problem since. That doesn't mean I'm prepared to recommend it to my patients - I don't know if I had spontaneous resolution, if I was aware of my wrists and functioned differently, or if the B did in fact cure me.

[CHATSDALE]

i can see the validity of double blind research but have you ever noticed that when it involves men [viagra, aids research, etc] that these meds get a fast track...ovarian ca, pms, get put on the back burner...

[drkolie]

It is Niken and yes they work for most of my clients and I myself, I am a believer. Placebo? I doupt it. Yes, many fancy trials have been done and even the Mayo clinic used them. I had dropped a metal chair on the lateral aspect of my foot. Then x-rays, pain killers and almost a year later, I still had discomfort with no diagnosis of fracture . A friend introduced the Niken insoles to me and I thought "yeah, right"......especially at 30+ dollars. He said it would work or my money back. I tryed them and 24 hours later my pain was gone. I continued to wear them for 3 months and the pain has not returned. I have used the same magnet system for falls and swelling and there is a definate difference. Now that I have said all that, I also bought the expensive matress, thinking more magnets, better sleep. Well there was no dramatic difference with the mattress at all for me. Does any one drug work exactly the same on everyone..............no. Same thing with any modality. Examine the difference between aromatherapy and hydrotherapy on different people. No 2 clients will benefit the same. I doupt if it is all placebo. What I go on is safe treatment with proper outcomes and in my practice I have found everyone heals differently and some never do, dispite medicine or integrative medicine.

[drkolie]

Originally Posted by ohlpn

A lengthy treatise follows on magnetic therapy quackery:
http://www.quackwatch.org/04Consumer...QA/magnet.html

In my opinion, after 30 years of nursing in many different fields, I feel this man does such a diservice to the public and the potential doctors, that I consider him no better than the quacks. As a nurse I have written him more than once on several issues and he has never returned any e-mails. He is very closed minded and tends to look at only selected research of his issues. my 2 cents, end of fustration, my opinion.

[yumi_11]

HELP!! hey guys, i'm a nursing student... does anyone have any informaiton regarding the different fields of nursing (hospital nursing, occupational nursing...)

[nightingale]

Originally Posted by yumi_11

HELP!! hey guys, i'm a nursing student... does anyone have any informaiton regarding the different fields of nursing (hospital nursing, occupational nursing...)

This is the Holistic Nursing Forum. We have many forums that will benefit you as a student Nurse. Try this link to surf the Student Nursing Forum:

http://allnurses.com/forums/f196/

[Charlie2]

I have used magnets for years now and I have no doubt that they work. Personally, I use only the North pole of my magnet. I have three books written by Albert Roy Davis and Walter C. Rawls, The Magnetic Blueprint of Life, The Magnetic Effect and Magnetism and Its Effects on the Living System. If you have an interest in magnetic therapy, you can learn a lot from these books. Morris Tischler, co-developer of the pacemaker, wrote a manual titled, "Biomagnetics in Complementary Medicine". He was a skeptic until he tried magnets for a pinched nerve in his back, while on a trip in South Africa. I'd recommend his manual as well.

Davis discovered that the two poles of a magnet have two different effects. According to his research, the South pole can cause an increase in pain at an injury site, cause an infection to spread, and actually slow healing. The North pole has the opposite effect. It relieves pain, can eliminate many forms of infections, and reduce the time it takes for an injury to heal. Davis and Rawls even used magnets successfully for burns, blood pressure, blood clots, cataracts, tumors...

The two researchers state that since the outer fiber covering of the nerves has a positive charged sodium ion, the North pole of the magnet (which is negatively charged) lowers the positive external potential of the outer nerve fiber coating, resulting in a sedated action caused by the lowering of the sensitivity of the nerve. Therefore, the sensation of pain is reduced.